Solid weapons

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Hado

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One thing I'd really like to see in the future is solid weapons that allow weapon on weapon collision. What I mean is weapons that make contact, bounce and deflect off each other with realistic physics.

For example in Die by the Sword and the Jedi Knight series, if you used a heavy attack and hit someone else's weapon with the most powerful point of your weapon arc, you could knock their weapon out of the way. Sometimes it was enough force to cut through their attack AND cut through them at the same time, sometimes your weapons hit in a manner that left one of you staggered (weapon knocked out of the way) and open for a split second to another attack, and sometimes both of you used attacks of equal force, in which case you'd enter a sword lock where the both of you crossed swords and matched strength by tapping a combination of movement and attack keys to decide the victor. If you hit someone's idle sword at the apogee of your heavy swing, it would surely knock your opponent's weapon out of the way as if it wasn't there at all. However if you made contact too early or late and not have enough momentum, your sword would be blocked, or worse, ineffectually caught against your opponent's blade while your character feebly tried to push through for the remainder of the swing (this is how the parries worked, by bouncing your opponent's weak attack off your block while cutting him at the same time before he could recover).

Right now swinging weapons go through everything unless someone is blocking with a shield or weapon. If there are a crowd of guys in front of you, a swing will go through all of them, without stopping, provided their weapons aren't in a state of block/parry. I suggest keeping how this works the same way, as it nicely simulates a sharp sword or heavy hammer blow going through multiple people.. but allow weapons swinging/in a state of attack to make contact, bounce, deflect, absorb and knock each other away. The calculations for speed bonuses are already in there (there's much less force at the beginning and ends of swing) so all it would need is extra calculations that take into account the mass/weight of a weapon. In a sword vs sword fight, with this (and some great timing) you'd be able to side swipe and deflect an opponent's lunge. Or chop down on someone's side swipe while he comes in at you. In a war hammer vs cudgel fight, if both opponents did side swings at the same time and their weapons made contact, the war hammer would certainly bash the light cudgel out of the way, although a bit of force/damage will be absorbed from the collision. Solid weapons also opens up a lot of possibilities most players wouldn't think of, say two throwing axes colliding midair and throwing each other off course, or a player using a polearm (with perfect timing and aim) hitting a flying rock out of the way :smile:

Instead of just block->block->swing->block->swing, weapon collision would open up a much more dynamic, fluid system of combat. You'd have players deciding if they wanted to use quick, weak hitting swipes that are deflected easily but do a lot of interrupts, or slow but strong attacks that leave you open but can overpower weak hits from opponents.
 
That could add some fps drop's making everything have physic's like that though.

And the last thing we need is a game that require's a $3000 computer to play.

Although i think it would be fun trying to hit people's arrows/rocks
 
Actually, DBTS was a game from '97 or '98 that ran on a pentium 133 and had multiple opponents on screen.. it had realistic simulated physics not only for weapon collision, but every single body part you lopped off, debris, etc. Jedi Outcast/Academy had full weapon collision detection with 32+ players, and didn't have heavy system requirements (ran it fine on my 1ghz pc back then). It was multiplayer too boot.

I'm pretty sure Armagan has all the material he needs to make solid weapons work, but decided not to because of logistics or lack of time.

Anyway the developers of Jedi Outcast released the source code for their game, so if Armagan ever wants to see how they got it to work with all those people in multiplayer, maybe check out a few of the tricks and shortcuts the guys at Raven used, here's the link:
http://www.monkeyisland.net/zero/june-JK2EditingTools2.exe
http://www.starwarsknights.com/zero/june-JK2EditingTools2.exe
 
Now, I recall the game which is interesting and would be a good inspirational tool to use in developing M&B's combat - if people wanted that style and depth, which may not be the case. For me, yes.
 
WipperSnipper said:
That could add some fps drop's making everything have physic's like that though.

And the last thing we need is a game that require's a $3000 computer to play.

lol, jedi knight 2 has weapon locks and u dont need to good a computer for that. If your computer cant run jedi knight 2 then get a new one.
 
Well, Die By The Sword was quite a horrible game. Interesting, but horrible. It did not resemble swordfight at all. What it resembled was two nearsighted people waving sticks in a completely extended arm, hoping to poke the other in the eye. The fun factor was quite high, though, sometimes the moves were hilariously funny.
 
Heh.. it was way ahead of its time. The gameplay mechanics were there.. it had the physics, weapon collision, realistic shields and all that, but the camera and control support was not thought out properly or refined enough at the time.

My favorite thing was deathmatch spawning as an ogre with everyone else as something smaller. You were literally over 30x the size of a kobold..one good swing would send someone 50 feet in the air, usually with body parts missing.
 
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