so you think you can stance?

[WOLFGEIST]

There is a system within the stance system that clearly is designed to have a role. What that role is, it seems nobody knows or understand.

But it works like this: Left forward stance seems to be a "power" stance. If you run forward and hold an overhead attack for slightly longer than a quick attack, you'll notice that it delivers a more aggressive animation *and then switches you automatically back to the right foot forward or "fencing" stance as I call it.*


With this "power" attack, you cannot chain into another attack. So, there's clearly some intent in terms of design here. But almost nobody knows about this system, if they do they don't talk about it at all. I have not tested the "power attack" speed or damage vs standard overhead. This works with all attacks btw, but the animation is most noticable with the overhead particularly on 1 handed swords.



I discovered this because I noticed occasionally after I spawned my first overhead would look different than the others. After some testing I found that it's linked to the left foot forward stance and that you are put into the right foot forward stance after performing the technique.

If anyone has further information on this i'd love to hear it. My point is that it seems nobody really understands the stance system enough to truly claim to think it's worthless or worthwhile. If you DO, i'd love to hear from you. I'd also love to hear the developers thoughts regarding design of the stance system, how they wish to change or improve it.

Personally I am not a Warband purist, so I love the concept of different stances and anything that adds more depth to the combat.

Edit:

Here's a breakdown in the difference in animations. I posted this video before I figured out how the system actually worked:

 

[FearSpear]

Stances seem strange and fairly useless to me... I have thought of one scenario they may be useful in conventional dueling and thats about it tbh... Footwork will always matter more than a slight change in animation/attack speed.

 

[Lord Bryggan]

Who has time to think about stances while fighting? Maybe in a duel, but most times you are fighting in a group and you're not looking at feet. Blocking, attacking and footwork becomes all muscle memory after awhile, but when you're ducking and dodging while looking for openings while constantly scanning where your friends and enemies are, plus archers off in the distance and incoming cav... well, no.

This is a game of intuition, and, as said so many times before, stance is counterintuitive.

 

[Thistle]

Stances are fine, they match directions of movement

 

[AxiosXiphos]

I'd happily see them relegated to a purely cosmetic function (as they do look good). To be fair they are pretty close to that already.

 

[Thistle]

Yeah the way they are rn is fine

 

[Craven4]

Thistle with the fringe opinions. Class system is fine too right?

 

[AxiosXiphos]

Thistle with the fringe opinions. Class system is fine too right?

One arguement at a time - don't muddy the water. I agree stances need to be reviewed and probably removed (functionally) even if they remain aesthetically.

 

[Thistle]

Thistle with the fringe opinions. Class system is fine too right?

The class system is okay though perk placement could be improved also some aesthetic choices would be nice.

 

[Craven4]

Cant say I agree with you but it's good to know there are some people who are okay with the new systems instead of hearing the usual echo. I'm curious where you stand on the poll and if you feel competent with the stances would you mind giving some insight on how you use it/react to it

 

[Thistle]

Cant say I agree with you but it's good to know there are some people who are okay with the new systems instead of hearing the usual echo. I'm curious where you stand on the poll and if you feel competent with the stances would you mind giving some insight on how you use it/react to it

Essentially the stances match the direction you move in (left/right) so if I am moving and attack right the blow will land quicker for two reasons, my own movement towards the opponent and the fact that my stance will be correct, likewise for my opponent.

 

[Craven4]

how about defending. In the heat of the moment I find it hard to use the proper stance/block direction in correlation with my opponents attacking stance/direction so that I have the least block delay.

Sometimes it even feels faster (I'm just crazy) to block the wrong direction and pivot my body to make up for being in the wrong stance and not having time to drop block/attack then walk into opponents swing to switch stances.

 

[Thistle]

how about defending. In the heat of the moment I find it hard to use the proper stance/block direction in correlation with my opponents attacking stance/direction so that I have the least block delay.

Sometimes it even feels faster (I'm just crazy) to block the wrong direction and pivot my body to make up for being in the wrong stance and not having time to drop block/attack then walk into opponents swing to switch stances.

Stances don't really affect blocking in a meaningful way, just because you're right foot us forward doesn't mean you should block right faster.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Stances don't really affect blocking in a meaningful way, just because you're right foot us forward doesn't mean you should block right faster.

Oh tell me more after you come back from this thread (link)

 

[Thistle]

Woah it affects movement

 

[Craven4]

Stances don't really affect blocking in a meaningful way, just because you're right foot us forward doesn't mean you should block right faster.

i personally notice huge differences in how long it takes to get a block up when in the wrong stance for that direction.

thank you for the link that thread has some useful information

 

[rektasaurus]

Sometimes it even feels faster (I'm just crazy) to block the wrong direction and pivot my body to make up for being in the wrong stance and not having time to drop block/attack then walk into opponents swing to switch stances.

It is faster. It's more pronounced with weapons like the 2h great sword who's variable block delay is larger than the 1h sword, especially if you're fighting more than one opponent and need to quickly block two hits in quick succession. Timed correctly, it can actually block a thrust like that too. Crazy.

Stances don't really affect blocking in a meaningful way, just because you're right foot us forward doesn't mean you should block right faster.

With a 2h sword, stance does effect how quickly you can block from an up/down position to the side, depending on which direction/stance you're in. Also yes, it does effect movement speed, blocking right while in right foot forward stance, you will move slower when strafing right than strafing left. Good practice is to try and hit your move direction before bringing up your block, if you have the time to spare.

 

[Roadpork]

Who has time to think about stances while fighting? Maybe in a duel, but most times you are fighting in a group and you're not looking at feet. Blocking, attacking and footwork becomes all muscle memory after awhile, but when you're ducking and dodging while looking for openings while constantly scanning where your friends and enemies are, plus archers off in the distance and incoming cav... well, no.

This is a game of intuition, and, as said so many times before, stance is counterintuitive.

Agree.
The stance animation is also actually wrong.
When people move forward with the right stance, their front-foot in the animation is now: left, right, left, right, left, right........... But it should be: left, left, left, left.
I really don't get it why my stance is right-facing when I just running forward???? It should be the "Middle stance".
Or... if it must be right stance, ok, make a right-stance-moving animation. Not just lean my left shoulder a little bit, my legs running normally and call it "right stance".
Or... remove the stance system. Problem solved.


It's also weird we have a totally useless "walking" toggle button since we need a "stance" toggle button more. The moving speed between "step forward" and "walk forward" shouldn't be much different.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Agree.
The stance animation is also actually wrong.
When people move forward with the right stance, their front-foot in the animation is now: left, right, left, right, left, right........... But it should be: left, left, left, left.
I really don't get it why my stance is right-facing when I just running forward???? It should be the "Middle stance".
Or... if it must be right stance, ok, make a right-stance-moving animation. Not just lean my left shoulder a little bit, my legs running normally and call it "right stance".
Or... remove the stance system. Problem solved.


It's also weird we have a totally useless "walking" toggle button since we need a "stance" toggle button more. The moving speed between "step forward" and "walk forward" shouldn't be much different.

I totally agree. There are animations that in terms of quality are very different (maybe made by different staff-as happens with different armors, 3d assets, etc). For example, now that you talk about the walking cycle; they have significantly polished up the animation throughout this development time. However, I see the walking animation and I can't get the Bee Gees' Stayin' Alive song out of my head; I don't like the way it looks.



It's a personal opinion, I think Bannerlord could benefit a lot from combining this: