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So when are heavy infantry going to be anti-cav as it was meant to be and not skirmishers?
- 主题发起人 hoonii
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what infatry you are speaking of? light or heavy ones?
Heavy inf long spear looks broken vs cav, i had a lot of moments where absolutely any other spear would stop/deal damage to oncoming horse, but a long spear glances for literally no reason, deals 10-19 damage and horseman just runs through my heavy inf like im a ghost or smh. And no, i used long spear with preparation from a range seeing a horseman charge, it was not a close range improvisation
Also becouse of slow speed/low damage its maybe usefull to stop horse, but useless to actually kill it, most of horsemen (even light ones) can just escape heavy inf right after succesfull stop-thrust with a little damage to horse, even into same direction where heavy inf stays, so heavy inf cavalry killing capabilities are bound to nearby friendlies who should strike down stopped horseman. This problem however does not exists on short spear which can retreat/thrust with enough speed to stop horse from advancing/run int your direction and kills them pretty fast
Also becouse of slow speed/low damage its maybe usefull to stop horse, but useless to actually kill it, most of horsemen (even light ones) can just escape heavy inf right after succesfull stop-thrust with a little damage to horse, even into same direction where heavy inf stays, so heavy inf cavalry killing capabilities are bound to nearby friendlies who should strike down stopped horseman. This problem however does not exists on short spear which can retreat/thrust with enough speed to stop horse from advancing/run int your direction and kills them pretty fast
最后编辑:
Heavy
It is really kind of silly right now. The best Captain mode anti-cav units are by far Wildlings with Throwing Spears. Heavy Infantry AI are too slow to capitalize on the rare incidence of horse-rearing like Wildings can, and the Captain can throw his spears to take down Solocaving players.
The problem with Mount&Blade's spears has always been that lengthening a polearm in this engine actually makes the polearm less effective overall for stabbing things.
The classic problem of "I did 0 damage with a pike to a horse that was charging straight me because the pike was inside the horse already and therefore did 0 damage." Because horses are immune to pikes that are already inside their heads.
The "0 damage" point on polearms in could be moved farther back, but this is a larger problem with thrusts in the game in general. Still a bit better than Warband there, though.
The problem with Mount&Blade's spears has always been that lengthening a polearm in this engine actually makes the polearm less effective overall for stabbing things.
The classic problem of "I did 0 damage with a pike to a horse that was charging straight me because the pike was inside the horse already and therefore did 0 damage." Because horses are immune to pikes that are already inside their heads.
The "0 damage" point on polearms in could be moved farther back, but this is a larger problem with thrusts in the game in general. Still a bit better than Warband there, though.
最后编辑:
I mean if the pike is inside the horse before you stab already you deserved it for not being aware enough.
Seems this **** applies for captain as well.
I agree to certain point just gameplay-wise, but if my pike was inside the horse, the horse would already be dead of having a pike where its brain is meant to be by the time I did 0 damage to it. There's no actual need to "thrust" the pike into the horse as it moves toward you, holding it steady in the "ready" position would do just fine. This is just an illustration of an edge case of how the thrust mechanics are sort of wonky in general, so much so that a shorter spear is actually easier to use against horses, the opposite of the actual use case of very long spears. Having a spear even pointed in your general direction while you run full speed into it is still very dangerous, and certainly not "0 damage".
For comparison, try stabbing some people with Pugio at some point. It will occasionally do 0 damage as the opponent is "too close" to be stabbed.
If you look at the length of the Pugio vs the thrusting animation, its fairly clear the pugio is drawn far enough back that there's no way an opponent could be "too close" to be stabbed without standing inside the wielder. Its like saying someone is standing too close to you to be punched. Even in a grapple, MMA fighters punch each other all the time. Even in a grapple, you could thrust a pugio, that's exactly what they were for.
Illustration with Short sword, which is considerably longer than Pugio:
There's no way I could stand at the tip of that shortsword, have the Wildling push the shortsword forward as hard as he could, and expect to not be very dead very soon.
This is kind of fine gameplay wise for most weapons. The problem is just more noticeable with spears as they are longer, and I think the math is based on percentage rather than an absolute number for deciding where the "0 damage" point is on the weapon. I'm fairly certain this a big chunk of the reason AI can struggle to kill cavalry with pikes, and the Wildlings with the shorter Throwing Spears have a much easier time rearing them or actually dealing effective thrusts.
最后编辑:
That is why we have left click xd.I agree to certain point just gameplay-wise, but if my pike was inside the horse, the horse would already be dead of having a pike where its brain is meant to be by the time I did 0 damage to it. There's no actual need to "thrust" the pike into the horse as it moves toward you, holding it steady in the "ready" position would do just fine. This is just an illustration of an edge case of how the thrust mechanics are sort of wonky in general, so much so that a shorter spear is actually easier to use against horses, the opposite of the actual use case of very long spears. Having a spear even pointed in your general direction while you run full speed into it is still very dangerous, and certainly not "0 damage".
For comparison, try stabbing some people with Pugio at some point. It will occasionally do 0 damage as the opponent is "too close" to be stabbed.
If you look at the length of the Pugio vs the thrusting animation, its fairly clear the pugio is drawn far enough back that there's no way an opponent could be "too close" to be stabbed without standing inside the wielder. Its like saying someone is standing too close to you to be punched. Even in a grapple, MMA fighters punch each other all the time. Even in a grapple, those same people could thrust a pugio, that's exactly what they were for.
Illustration with Short sword, which is considerably longer than Pugio:
There's no way I could stand at the tip of that shortsword, have the Wildling push the shortsword forward as hard as he could, and expect to not be very dead very soon.
The problem is just more noticeable with spears as they are longer, and I think the math is based on percentage rather than an absolute number for deciding where the "0 damage" point is on the weapon. I'm fairly certain this a big chunk of the reason AI can struggle to kill cavalry with pikes, and the Wildlings with the shorter Throwing Spears have a much easier time rearing them or actually dealing effective thrusts.
I mean don't look at this game as realistic because it isn't.
Mushbeast
Knight at Arms
I get what he's saying about the glancing though, that mechanic is probably the reason why not many (new) people pick the pike as it's extremely punishing and sometimes for only little reward. Once you've done some practice with the pike you'll almost be untouchable to cav, but only the ones that are coming after you - like a lot of people say, their manoeuvrability should be nerfed so they can't dodge in and out your pike-protected area so easy.
At this point the pike is probably one of the low-key best support weapons in the game, however due to it's nature of being 2handed you're always archer bait. I feel like the main problem beside cavalry being too strong is that projectiles are too efficient and fill a lot more roles, so it's better to just use them as anti-cav at the moment. Nerf them mf'ers and give us some pike and shield and we're in business
At this point the pike is probably one of the low-key best support weapons in the game, however due to it's nature of being 2handed you're always archer bait. I feel like the main problem beside cavalry being too strong is that projectiles are too efficient and fill a lot more roles, so it's better to just use them as anti-cav at the moment. Nerf them mf'ers and give us some pike and shield and we're in business
In Warband, an infantry with warspear/shield can reliably beat cav unless they have a great lance. The awlpikes and bamboo spear are even better. With a 2hd pike, the infantry has a massive advantage against cav. Spears are weakest at extremely close range, but even then they are pretty good once you figure out how to turn into the thrust.
So I think spears are fine in Warband, although they are best in WF&S because of that overhand thrust.
in warband, with a pike you are basically invulnerable against cav 1 on 1 and can easily deal with a couple at once with no risk of getting hit. i've also found that spears bounce much more in bannerlord than in warband - several times i've stabbed late at a cav and my hit glances on the front of the horse. maybe that's better, but in warband even a glance hit with a spear to the front of a horse would rear it.
That sounds a lot like Bannerlord.
Players with 2h weapons were a novelty in Warband (except on those crazy DM servers), but now in Bannerlord they've been turned into a dedicated troop type (shock infantry), the attack turnspeed has been significantly increased, they can move around faster on foot relative to others, and they've been deliberately made much more viable across different modes.
What will they do next? Add the "dodge roll" from Dark Souls?
I guess ur a cav player then
have fun
Dude, it's TDM, it not designed supposed be playable. It's just a human behaviour experimental field.
(No wondering anything happens in there)
But in the skirmish, 2h without a ranged weapon is the 2nd trash class. (only beats the heavy inf)
It's not only unbalanced. It's trash.
However, ppl love heavy inf so much so they will pick it anyway(ya, me myself), then slain by the 2nd trash class. Then crying about 2handed op. Then devs follow the suggestion, nerf melee. Then you will unsurprisingly found that heavy inf will be nerfed harder than 2h patch after patch.
Mushbeast
Knight at Arms
I don't get the idea that TDM is supposed to be unbalanced garbage. I'll admit that it is true for Bannerlord, but in just about every other single game it's not the case, it's simply just the way it's designed here. It doesn't have to be that way 
If it worked properly I think it'd be the best mode of the lot until Battle or whatever gets added in.
If it worked properly I think it'd be the best mode of the lot until Battle or whatever gets added in.
forcing people into predetermined classes and weapons is whats wrong.
please equalize all class stats,
one speed for all classes,
no penalties for using cav as a different class, (horse being slower then cavalry class horse)
no penalties for using a range weapon as a different class (not sure if its in there)
please let players choose any equipment they want there shouldnt be a restriction on weapon, armor or mount selection, outside what you can afford (gold system of warband)
your speed should only be affected by the equipment you have,
so everyone can use every weapon, mount and fight in every kind of situation equally
this will encourage more people to use range weapons and mounts if there isn't a movement speed penalty that makes foot combat impractical,
please make heavy armor realistically deflect arrows,
this will help debuff archers who i believe are very overpowered
quivers should carry the same movement penalties that shields have ( a little more to prevent kiting)
it is unrealistic for a person to be able to sprint with a quiver full of arrows, movement penalties should be attached to the quiver item equipment rather then the archer class itself
please reduce cavalry health,
cavalry shouldnt be tanks, i know you are reducing their health now so i thank you for that change but please decrease more
add a horse flinch that affects the rider's melee swing,
a horse shouldnt be stable if hit with a weapon or arrow, it should flinch therefore affecting the riders ability to attack in the moment, like infantry on foot, being hit should interrupt their swing
please equalize players heights,
a player shouldnt be able to kick/melee further than any other player
thank you for reading
please equalize all class stats,
one speed for all classes,
no penalties for using cav as a different class, (horse being slower then cavalry class horse)
no penalties for using a range weapon as a different class (not sure if its in there)
please let players choose any equipment they want there shouldnt be a restriction on weapon, armor or mount selection, outside what you can afford (gold system of warband)
your speed should only be affected by the equipment you have,
so everyone can use every weapon, mount and fight in every kind of situation equally
this will encourage more people to use range weapons and mounts if there isn't a movement speed penalty that makes foot combat impractical,
please make heavy armor realistically deflect arrows,
this will help debuff archers who i believe are very overpowered
quivers should carry the same movement penalties that shields have ( a little more to prevent kiting)
it is unrealistic for a person to be able to sprint with a quiver full of arrows, movement penalties should be attached to the quiver item equipment rather then the archer class itself
please reduce cavalry health,
cavalry shouldnt be tanks, i know you are reducing their health now so i thank you for that change but please decrease more
add a horse flinch that affects the rider's melee swing,
a horse shouldnt be stable if hit with a weapon or arrow, it should flinch therefore affecting the riders ability to attack in the moment, like infantry on foot, being hit should interrupt their swing
please equalize players heights,
a player shouldnt be able to kick/melee further than any other player
thank you for reading
