So, What would Help to Restore Your Faith in TaleWorlds?

[FireBlazinCandy]

Here, this post is getting derailed.

As Stevepine just said above as well as countless others throughout the post-launch development, just give us more updates on the game.

At the very baseline fact, TW created an unfinished product and charged full price. We knew this going into the purchase, and didn't mind because you posted updates so regularly, but bloody hell, this is rediculous.

Blame the community all you want for not releasing info more regularly because of the backlash, but at the end of the day, TW is doing a whopperly crap job of keeping its community happy. A community that paid money for a product based on trust it would eventually become a fully functioning, fun game.

 

[MostBlunted]

Chose*

 

[froggyluv]

This all starts from the main dude himself - he makes the call on how he wants information disseminated or if he wants to keep a tight lid. Same exact thing happened in Arma - they used to give us cool updates on things they were gonna try and do -like Dynamic Destruction - well it didnt pan out, wasnt possible performance wise but they had already shown us a tech demo and the damage was done. The community was in an uproar because even though the feature wasnt promised - it seemed like it was and it just wet too many appetites.

The forums were lit for half a year and the once friendly very communicative Devs went into full lockdown mode as ordered from the top - that was over 10 years ago and its stayed that way. Getting an influx of ever supportive easy to please White Knight console type fans didnt help the cause either as the devs once felt they HAD to keep communication lines open if they wanted to sell future titles. Thats not essential anymore.

One difference though is the Arma main dev seem to harbor open resentment of his fanbase while this guy doesnt -he's just a turtle who moves at his own pace world be damned

 

[FireBlazinCandy]

This all starts from the main dude himself - he makes the call on how he wants information disseminated or if he wants to keep a tight lid. Same exact thing happened in Arma - they used to give us cool updates on things they were gonna try and do -like Dynamic Destruction - well it didnt pan out, wasnt possible performance wise but they had already shown us a tech demo and the damage was done. The community was in an uproar because even though the feature wasnt promised - it seemed like it was and it just wet too many appetites.

The forums were lit for half a year and the once friendly very communicative Devs went into full lockdown mode as ordered from the top - that was over 10 years ago and its stayed that way. Getting an influx of ever supportive easy to please White Knight console type fans didnt help the cause either as the devs once felt they HAD to keep communication lines open if they wanted to sell future titles. Thats not essential anymore.

One difference though is the Arma main dev seem to harbor open resentment of his fanbase while this guy doesnt -he's just a turtle who moves at his own pace world be damned

What is confusing me is why the Devs are being used as cannon fodder by TW. Duh_Taleworlds states that if they have time and if they want, they are encouraged to spend time on the forums answering questions. Time I hope TW pays them for. Otherwise wtf is the point in their marketing team if half the posts the Devs deal with are Moaning Michael posts like these?

From the responses we got today from the Devs seems like its like some intern is given the login password for Twitter and is told to repost anything and everything that has #mountandblade. Anything further is too much to ask from them.

An actual marketing department with people who have degrees and aspirations of bigging up their portfolios would sit down with Devs and extrapolate/work out what it is they can post to the consumers on a regular basis. What Taleworlds has is not a marketing department and they've hugely lost respect it seems from its fans for something that is truly not that difficult to fix.

 

[froggyluv]

What is confusing me is why the Devs are being used as cannon fodder by TW. Duh_Taleworlds states that if they have time and if they want, they are encouraged to spend time on the forums answering questions. Time I hope TW pays them for. Otherwise wtf is the point in their marketing team if half the posts the Devs deal with are Moaning Michael posts like these?

From the responses we got today from the Devs seems like its like some intern is given the login password for Twitter and is told to repost anything and everything that has #mountandblade. Anything further is too much to ask from them.

An actual marketing department with people who have degrees and aspirations of bigging up their portfolios would sit down with Devs and extrapolate/work out what it is they can post to the consumers on a regular basis. What Taleworlds has is not a marketing department and they've hugely lost respect it seems from its fans for something that is truly not that difficult to fix.

I hear what your saying but again -if the lockdown of "Absolutely no new or unauthorized information is to be released to the Public -Period!!" - is coming from the top, no amount of High Level Marketing can overcome that obstacle. It's company canon thru and thru and I get the sense thats exactly whats happening here. They only repeat in numerous ways the same things over and over - whatever was in that last DevLog from August 17th over and over and over -there is nothing new.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I have never lost faith in TW.

Yeah I think loosing faith is over dramatic. I can tell you problems in Bannerlord all day long, but I also support TW and try help people with the game when I can, but I have to be honest still when there is a problem.

The modding discord

>discord
No!

I think I would like more detailed and both short term and long term road map that lays out the specific issues (Not the non-specific ultra vague pseudo-road map TW has gave us). This of course means there will be many specific improvements and NEW CONTENT on that road map. This also means actually finishing things in a timely manner, which may not be a practical request and I get that TW specifically doesn't want to forecast updates, but that's upsetting, There are hundreds of small things the game needs done that should be able to done in timely consistent manner and NOT un-done by an update.
I don't really trust vague "improving combat" or "Improving troops AI" at all because many updates make parts of troops AI perform worse and then when I report it I'm met with "what do you mean?" and then after videos and saves I eventual receive "It's intentional for horse archer to decide to run up and melee sometimes". Spending a year "improving combat and AI" doesn't mean anything if it's going still be bad when you're done!

Here's an example of a good game roadmap I saw recently

See how it says specific things in a way an average person not on the dev team can imagine their meaning. It has short, mid and long term projection, all fairly specific. I don't know really what "order of battle" means, I only see glimpses of it and vague descriptions, so if it comes out and I still can't just assignee captains freely and formations are still all wrong and I can't place them where I want them then it's just near a year waiting for just a new problem in the game.
I would love to see:
Dec- Feb
More clan members options and starting options for sandbox
Horse archer circling fix
Damage calculation balance
Cavalry offensive balance
Infantry use shield while running
bonus boons to various troops types and party compositions
New ways to level skills (medicine, engineer and more)
Bandit spawn and size system overhaul
(These are examples, of course there many more equally important changes)
*****
And then actually get all these improvements in a timely manner without them being un-done a week later by another update.

 

[stevepine]

Yeah I think loosing faith is over dramatic. I can tell you problems in Bannerlord all day long, but I also support TW and try help people with the game when I can, but I have to be honest still when there is a problem.

>discord
No!

I think I would like more detailed and both short term and long term road map that lays out the specific issues (Not the non-specific ultra vague pseudo-road map TW has gave us). This of course means there will be many specific improvements and NEW CONTENT on that road map. This also means actually finishing things in a timely manner, which may not be a practical request and I get that TW specifically doesn't want to forecast updates, but that's upsetting, There are hundreds of small things the game needs done that should be able to done in timely consistent manner and NOT un-done by an update.
I don't really trust vague "improving combat" or "Improving troops AI" at all because many updates make parts of troops AI perform worse and then when I report it I'm met with "what do you mean?" and then after videos and saves I eventual receive "It's intentional for horse archer to decide to run up and melee sometimes". Spending a year "improving combat and AI" doesn't mean anything if it's going still be bad when you're done!

Here's an example of a good game roadmap I saw recently

See how it says specific things in a way an average person not on the dev team can imagine their meaning. It has short, mid and long term projection, all fairly specific. I don't know really what "order of battle" means, I only see glimpses of it and vague descriptions, so if it comes out and I still can't just assignee captains freely and formations are still all wrong and I can't place them where I want them then it's just near a year waiting for just a new problem in the game.
I would love to see:
Dec- Feb
More clan members options and starting options for sandbox
Horse archer circling fix
Damage calculation balance
Cavalry offensive balance
Infantry use shield while running
bonus boons to various troops types and party compositions
New ways to level skills (medicine, engineer and more)
Bandit spawn and size system overhaul
(These are examples, of course there many more equally important changes)
*****
And then actually get all these improvements in a timely manner without them being un-done a week later by another update.

Yes... just bought that game today!

It's a far simpler game than Bannerlord of course... but already you do get the feeling that it's an example of really good testing, thorough planning, and early access done right.

 

[ShakenSpeare]

Duh has about as much freedom in what he says as a Chinese opposition leader speaking in front of Xi Jinping.

I just want a development team that doesn't take itself so seriously. One that doesn't view their work as important and confidential as managing nuclear weapons. Just chill out and be human to your community.

Even if TW just flat out explained what was wrong and said: "The game's not going anywhere, unfortunately" that would only be admitting what everyone else knows. Better that than pretending that fixing the bug made last patch and creating two more is "progress based on community feedback."

 

[MostBlunted]

Wartales is overhyped (like Bannerlord) in my opinion, I also don´t understand that a lot of people think that it´s similar to Warband. The AI enemies are leveling up with your progress, that already kills it for me. It´s like that looters get stronger if you level up in Bannerlord or that you have to defeat the same ****ing army over and over again....oh wait...

I´m not saying this is a bad game, but far away from Bannerlord when it comes down to the gameplay.

Duh has about as much freedom in what he says as a Chinese opposition leader speaking in front of Xi Jinping.

I don´t agree here. I think he is taking his spare time to keep us informed. I value that, even if his informations are not the informations I´m looking for. He could just say nothing here (forum) at all, but he does. That´s also a thing I´ll never understand, devs are giving us much more information than the community managers. Dejans next post will be 30 minutes after we´ve got the Steam update and he´ll just post the patch notes.

In my opinion the devs were never the problem, without them there would be no communication at all, only patch notes. It´s totally fine if a company doesn´t achieve their goals, it´s just the communication, and again, without devs there would be zero communication here at all.

Dejans (community manager) last postings here:

- 07.12 (1 post)
- 06.12 (1 post)
- 03.12 (2 posts)
- 29.11 (6 posts)
...
...

Informations in those post combined (update will be released when it´s ready + some jokes) = ZERO

Informations from Duh from just today = over 9000!

EDIT:

I´m not blaming Dejan, I think he also got his order from whoever to not tell us anything. That´s just how TW think they´re "These include engaging with users directly on our official forum and our Steam forum," is working. Have you ever seen any useful information on their Steam forums?

Steam forums right now:

I don´t know, but those thread titles doesn´t seem to be a "very postive" game for me.

Feel free to give me ANY link where TW is really enganging in those Steam forum.

Just read those thread titles, they are pretty similar to the stuff we say here or? (good job for locking down the "yet another useless update thread without explanation!)

But can "we" blame TW´s managment for this? In my opinion yes, from their point of view:

And money is all that matters, TW isn´t the small indie dev company (haven´t seen this argument here for a while) that they claim. They want money, they got money and they will get more money with the console and final PC release. They would maybe care more about their game if this wouldn´t be the case, but it´s not. As long as reviews are good they´re fine with this.

If you have a good lead, you can do a good job if not well....

 

[froggyluv]

I don´t agree here. I think he is taking his spare time to keep us informed. I value that, even if his informations are not the informations I´m looking for. He could just say nothing here (forum) at all, but he does. That´s also a thing I´ll never understand, devs are giving us much more information than the community managers. Dejans next post will be 30 minutes after we´ve got the Steam update and he´ll just post the patch notes.

I think your confusing good intention with the ability and authority to release any real information. Shakespeare was correct in making that analogy -no one is (or most of us) are blaming the intentions of the Devs -just that like China, they have a lockdown on information. if you know any new information thats pertinent since the last Dev Blog please feel free to refresh me as i stopped paying attention

 

[MostBlunted]

I think your confusing good intention with the ability and authority to release any real information. Shakespeare was correct in making that analogy -no one is (or most of us) are blaming the intentions of the Devs -just that like China, they have a lockdown on information. if you know any new information thats pertinent since the last Dev Blog please feel free to refresh me as i stopped paying attention

Can you please tell which information they´re holding back because of what? Should I just blame China for Bannerlord? Is Shakespear one of the devs? I´ll prefer to blame Trump...I mean Biden!

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Wartales is overhyped

I'm starve'n for ma tactics games! What am I gonna do get Darkest Dungeon 2 on EPIC GAME STORE?! NO! But I was really just showing the roadmap as an example of one that make feel confident in the game's updates.

The AI enemies are leveling up with your progress

Oh no... what ever will I do..... I'm sure I don't have any ideas on how to overpower and completely **** the AI into the ground.....

 

[froggyluv]

Can you please tell which information they´re holding back because of what? Should I just blame China for Bannerlord? Is Shakespear one of the devs? I´ll prefer to blame Trump...I mean Biden!

I dont think you're understanding properly - the point is

"no new information has been released since the official Dev Log and that is without question because they are simply not allowed to divulge anything until the next one".

Its really not that hard a concept - the rest of your post is hyperbole -the analogy is clear for the clear-headed

 

[grunwalder01]

Nooo idea, I think we've all tried everything, only way is to knock on their doorsteps? Lol

hey google, find me a two way ticket to Ankara

 

[e222143]

hey google, find me a two way ticket to Ankara

well, even you go to Ankara, good luck with getting permission to enter the University or Teknokent(area of IT, sth like that).

 

[SaltyNacho]

Maybe we can get some screenshots of the new battle terrain system? There must be a lot of scenes being worked on that you can send some screen grabs to the community

 

[NPC99]

"no new information has been released since the official Dev Log and that is without question because they are simply not allowed to divulge anything until the next one".

Which is why most Dev communication is to explain points/mechanics regarding features that have already been released.

BTW we only have ourselves to blame. That defensive communication strategy is in direct response to our misinterpretations and overreactions.

 

[Mad Vader]

Maybe we can get some screenshots of the new battle terrain system? There must be a lot of scenes being worked on that you can send some screen grabs to the community

Only Callum is allowed to do that and he's busy looking for banal content for his daily tweets. This is not as easy as it sounds and he's running out of search engines.
The problem with a screenshot is that people will read all kinds of wishful thinking into it and raise their expectations above what Taleworlds can actually deliver. But again, this is caused by too little previous communication about the same feature.
So they better change their approach to showcasing upcoming features, like bringing back dev blogs that deal with work in progress and are not strictly about past patches. Also less misleading hype in these dev blogs would be great too.

 

[Gandamula]

They made a great game, so I just hope they still support it and made the game more easy to mod.

 

[Grank]

So overall, you really prefer silence over information?

I don't care about either. I can understand if they've gone silent because of that past mistake. Communicating with a community is a harsh job. You guys are saying that it would be fine for them if they fail at delivering something and say it out loud. Sure, because you guys are long time fans and are "nice" on this franchise. To others it might ruin the company's reputation. I can already see what people will say if they do that. Oh look they keep failing at their promises lol. Oh look, another announcement of a feature that's gonna fail lol. Failworlds lol.

You know what's good? When companies just shut the **** up, work, and surprise us with good games. Look at Japanese game companies for example. They just work, and when they've made something presentable and release date is near, they go public to draw the market in. They show actual footage of the actual game, not some fake prototype that might be altered later, and it will only be better on release.

I personally hate the trend of rush that the industry's higher ups are pushing. They don't do research or even think carefully. They just want good-sounding ideas to bring to their investor meeting and draw the money in. Brag about it on social media. Disrupt the tech world! When it turns out their ideas are not feasible, **** just hits the fan.