So,is it known if TW plan to make villages 'upgradable'?

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TheBerserk

Sergeant
Still Bannerlord is a good game. I see too much critisism but even these features are removed still we have a good and detailed game. Its not perfect of course and will not be a game with 95+ rating but also it does not deserve that much critisism. I was ok when I learnt that feature is removed did not resist much because its understandable, this was a risky design. Has great potential but hard to implement for a small-medium studio. My preference was that design of course however current design is good too only needs some more work especially for castles.


i think bannerlord is still a good game, but it's just that when you compare it with what has been done before it is still disappointing and frustrating

why hasn't viking conquest been a bigger source of inspiration on the equivalent of features as well as on his ideas ?

is it a problem of time, choice or other?
 
Viking conquest is a better product in terms of depth and immersion than Bannerlord. Bannerlord's graphics, family dynasty, battle size, and animations are better and that's about it. Bannerlord is not anything to write home about, it just isn't.
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Still Bannerlord is a good game. I see too much critisism but even these features are removed still we have a good and detailed game. Its not perfect of course and will not be a game with 95+ rating but also it does not deserve that much critisism.
Thanks again for interacting with the community, you are the most active dev in the forums and this is awesome!

I can't speak for anyone else but atleast in my case i do think bannerlord is an amazing game and when i criticize it in the forums is in the hope of the game becoming the best in can be since i believe it is lacking in the immersion front and balance compared to the previous titles.

I loved warband/classic and every mod that made it more immersive and complex, it's a shame that there are features missing in bannerlord that were in previous titles and removed features like castle building, it sounded much better than the current non-existent village management in game for example.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
Still Bannerlord is a good game. I see too much critisism but even these features are removed still we have a good and detailed game. Its not perfect of course and will not be a game with 95+ rating but also it does not deserve that much critisism. I was ok when I learnt that feature is removed did not resist much because its understandable, this was a risky design. Has great potential but hard to implement for a small-medium studio. My preference was that design of course however current design is good too only needs some more work especially for castles.

You gotta understand - we follow all those dev blogs and wait all those years so our dream of a fully fleshed out game with all of those features being implemented is a literal dream we've been dying to try. So when its released we just zip the credit card without question -knowing its early access but fully expecting all of those blog features to be cooking in the oven - just not ready yet. When yall come on and say - "oh we're just not doing that anymore -but its still good"... thats soul crushing man. We trust and expect all of the things we were reading in those dev blogs all these years to be in this game as we were never told different.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
You gotta understand - we follow all those dev blogs and wait all those years so our dream of a fully fleshed out game with all of those features being implemented is a literal dream we've been dying to try. So when its released we just zip the credit card without question -knowing its early access but fully expecting all of those blog features to be cooking in the oven - just not ready yet. When yall come on and say - "oh we're just not doing that anymore -but its still good"... thats soul crushing man. We trust and expect all of the things we were reading in those dev blogs all these years to be in this game as we were never told different.

They said village management and upgrades had been cut in a devblog, so the people reading them knew it was not coming.

edit:
Can we still build castles in villages we own?
We had to drop that feature. At some point in development, fief management became too complex, with towns, castles and villages each having their own specific management screens. The ability to build castles in villages also gave rise to complex rules. For example, demolishing the castle in a village could potentially revert the village to another kingdom and we had to add complex logic to handle that. Overall, we felt that the design had become too bloated and unappealing.

The solution was changing the status of villages so that they would no longer be considered independent fiefs but were always attached to a castle or town. This removed the necessity to have a management screen for villages and simplified and streamlined the system. The aesthetics of our new villages is also much more pleasing.
 
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froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
@Apocal yes I was referring to the many other dev blogs features that have gone unrealized as categorized in another thread. Those features status have not been updated revealed
 

sniparsexe

Knight at Arms
You gotta understand - we follow all those dev blogs and wait all those years so our dream of a fully fleshed out game with all of those features being implemented is a literal dream we've been dying to try. So when its released we just zip the credit card without question -knowing its early access but fully expecting all of those blog features to be cooking in the oven - just not ready yet. When yall come on and say - "oh we're just not doing that anymore -but its still good"... thats soul crushing man. We trust and expect all of the things we were reading in those dev blogs all these years to be in this game as we were never told different.
Although I think Bannerlord is a good game right now, and it's going to be one of the best games I played in the future, this is the truth
 

Zwade

Sergeant
Currently what I see from youtube and twitch playthroughs player mostly suffer from enemy raids. It can be good to add projects also to villages or castle projects which effects its villages. Some can make them raid harder or increase militia of villages for example. I am not decider at these issues. Can think a solution and suggest it but do not know if it is accepted. I give less probability.
How about an option to order all the villagers to relocate to their associated castle/town until the player tells them to return to their village? They would drain food from the keep(like garrison), all taxes would cease, the village would be flagged as "unraidable" and no hearths would be damaged. This would give the player clan parties time to patrol and eliminate any would-be raiders that always seem to make a b-line for the player villages once a war starts.
Is that more easily implemented?
 

Honved

Knight
I'm not overly bothered by the idea of not being able to build your own castle, but the lack of basic upgrade features for villages, which was a major "world building" feature in Warband, is disastrous.

Basically, there's no economic purpose to villages, other than bland and boring sources of income and levies, just as there's no military purpose in castles, other than as means of controlling the villages and their associated incomes. The removal of Warband features, not just the failure to add new features, makes Bannerlord rather pointless except as a battle generator, and that gets repetitive and meaningless after a few hundred battles.

If there's no point in entering villages, nothing to see or do, and no sense of "ownership", then why even bother to detail them? They could just be waypoints on the campaign map and it wouldn't matter. I'm seriously disappointed in the direction the game has taken.
 
I'm not overly bothered by the idea of not being able to build your own castle, but the lack of basic upgrade features for villages, which was a major "world building" feature in Warband, is disastrous.

Basically, there's no economic purpose to villages, other than bland and boring sources of income and levies, just as there's no military purpose in castles, other than as means of controlling the villages and their associated incomes. The removal of Warband features, not just the failure to add new features, makes Bannerlord rather pointless except as a battle generator, and that gets repetitive and meaningless after a few hundred battles.

If there's no point in entering villages, nothing to see or do, and no sense of "ownership", then why even bother to detail them? They could just be waypoints on the campaign map and it wouldn't matter. I'm seriously disappointed in the direction the game has taken.

I think this sums it up quite nicely. Nothing to see or do.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Basically, there's no economic purpose to villages, other than bland and boring sources of income and levies, just as there's no military purpose in castles, other than as means of controlling the villages and their associated incomes.

You can get a few perks to reduce castle garrison wages by around 40%, which is pretty good when you want to stuff like 500 dudes in there as storage.
 
Yes, this is pretty good and horrible the same time because what you are saying is just that economics does not matter, but an arbitrary XP-level in certain skills and why bother option #2 upon perk selection, if these perks are so important to hold your finances together that you will almost never pick the other options?

From what I see the game promises/suggests:
- open, changing world
- politics between realms
- epic battles
- trade & economics
- villainry
- RPG elements
- crafting
Why do I think so? Because the framework is already there and playing the game just makes one think where the muscles matching the skeleton are hiding.

- open, changing world is true: places change their owner. Does anything else happen? Not really.
- politics between realms? Yes. We have: I declare thee war...five minutes are over. Let us make peace after I lose another two castles. My vassals will be happy to pay the tribute. So yes, politics is war/peace and nothing else.
- epic battles: yes, we have them. We can battle huge number of bots and have fun...unless the game just consists of fighting these.
- trade & economics: Yes, we can buy and sell stuff. We do not understand why prices are made but we understand, that unless we spend XP into trade skill a 'trade penalty' causes us not to make ample profits and we can just try to reduce it. Caravans, fiefs and workshops are just acquirable assets just giving us a flat sum of gold per day. We cannot do anything else with them and caravans get destroyed quite regularly.
- Villainry: Yes we can recruit bandits, rob caravans and do crime missions. But: why should we do that? Any benefit besides reaching Leadership level 175 and getting lots of fututre Battanian Fian Champions we pick up in bandit-lair-infested forests?
- RPG elements: Yes, we can paint our character meticulously and earn XP by doing stuff. And we do repetetive Quests...uhm: issues for...yes what for? Relation gaIn and money to get more and better troops for battle.
- crafting: we can dismantle and create objects - this is cool. But why stop at weapons?

Basically spoken, the framework promises us a great game. Currently, it is not much more than a battle simulator. A bit like call of duty with grind in between to get and keep our troops or moving to the next battle to fight. Early access, I know, but I really hope they add muscles to the game.
 
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Dreed89

Sergeant at Arms
No need to go back to the now-dropped design.

Adding several upgrades and making them also visible on world map would definitely add depth, along with more reasons (npcs, dialogues, random events) to visit villages.
 
TaleWorlds has been a bit too cautious with its game design for Bannerlord. From what I could gather from developer comments from the past months, there has been some lack of ambition over some aspects of the project, such as diplomacy, politics, clan interaction and settlement development. I was let down when someone made a point that the game was simplified in order to make it more accessible to a broader audience, because, well, we're not that stupid. :smile:
Games like Total War exist, and they can get complex in some aspects, but that does not translate into low sales numbers. People buy the game because there is a big niche to be exploited: many players like to tinker with abstract concepts, such as power-politics, alliances, non-aggression pacts etc. With Bannerlord, I have a feeling that TaleWorlds had insulted the customers in some way or another, assuming that they would be intellectually overloaded had the company decided to expand on politics, management and diplomacy.
Even though the sales numbers must be high, you have to understand that many people have accessed your product not for what it is, but for what they believed it to be.
With that said, I'd ask for more ambition and insistence on the part of developers who do care about feature depth and complexity. Otherwise, a game in Bannerlord will always resemble a robotic grind for capturing the next settlement in exactly the same ways. Capturing a settlement should be an important milestone for the player. It needs to enable some emotion and allow you to care for it.
 

Shun

Squire
WB
TaleWorlds has been a bit too cautious with its game design for Bannerlord. From what I could gather from developer comments from the past months, there has been some lack of ambition over some aspects of the project, such as diplomacy, politics, clan interaction and settlement development. I was let down when someone made a point that the game was simplified in order to make it more accessible to a broader audience, because, well, we're not that stupid. :smile:
Games like Total War exist, and they can get complex in some aspects, but that does not translate into low sales numbers. People buy the game because there is a big niche to be exploited: many players like to tinker with abstract concepts, such as power-politics, alliances, non-aggression pacts etc. With Bannerlord, I have a feeling that TaleWorlds had insulted the customers in some way or another, assuming that they would be intellectually overloaded had the company decided to expand on politics, management and diplomacy.
Even though the sales numbers must be high, you have to understand that many people have accessed your product not for what it is, but for what they believed it to be.
With that said, I'd ask for more ambition and insistence on the part of developers who do care about feature depth and complexity. Otherwise, a game in Bannerlord will always resemble a robotic grind for capturing the next settlement in exactly the same ways. Capturing a settlement should be an important milestone for the player. It needs to enable some emotion and allow you to care for it.


Very well put, +1!
 
No need to go back to the now-dropped design.
I disagree. There is every reason to talk about this. Let me tell you a funny story. A metaphor.

Imagine a guy paying $$$ to a baker for a cake he will get later up front.
The guy was shown a picture of a cake with frosting, hazelnuts, lots of chocolate...and expects to a reasonable amount he will get the same.
During preparation of the batter the baker thinks 'There are people out there not liking hazelnuts and are even allergic to them. I will drop them. That way I will sell many more cakes to people allergic to hazelnuts. Then he thinks..too much chocolate is unhealthy...lets reduce the amount...same for sugar frosting. Instead put some butter cream on top. That way I can sell even more cakes to people liking butter cream while placating people not wanting too much chocolate or watching for calories. Then, let me use whole grain instead of wheat flour because this is a good idea as well. And remove the sugar for artificial sweetener. That way everyone will love my cake and many more people will want my cake.
Result: the next time the guy wants a cake, he will visit a supermarket and will buy a bland industrial cake for $ and rant on the internet about the baker. At least, when buying cheap-o grade industrial cake he exactly knows what he can expect and can have it now and whenever he wants it. Our clever baker will have to close his store eventually as noone want to buy the 'cake that everyone likes' - this cake is a lie.

*puts away the Ancient Tome of Bedside Stories (TM)*

:wink:
 
TaleWorlds has been a bit too cautious with its game design for Bannerlord. From what I could gather from developer comments from the past months, there has been some lack of ambition over some aspects of the project, such as diplomacy, politics, clan interaction and settlement development. I was let down when someone made a point that the game was simplified in order to make it more accessible to a broader audience, because, well, we're not that stupid. :smile:
Games like Total War exist, and they can get complex in some aspects, but that does not translate into low sales numbers. People buy the game because there is a big niche to be exploited: many players like to tinker with abstract concepts, such as power-politics, alliances, non-aggression pacts etc. With Bannerlord, I have a feeling that TaleWorlds had insulted the customers in some way or another, assuming that they would be intellectually overloaded had the company decided to expand on politics, management and diplomacy.
Even though the sales numbers must be high, you have to understand that many people have accessed your product not for what it is, but for what they believed it to be.
With that said, I'd ask for more ambition and insistence on the part of developers who do care about feature depth and complexity. Otherwise, a game in Bannerlord will always resemble a robotic grind for capturing the next settlement in exactly the same ways. Capturing a settlement should be an important milestone for the player. It needs to enable some emotion and allow you to care for it.

Indeed, that's exactly right.
 
I have just one question.The initial ideea of making all castels and towns unique scenes is on the future a think or not?I like the ones that we have but is a bit weird when i go to a vlandian castel on the coast and is the same scene
 

Zarthas

Knight
God damn, I want to Kickstarter a competitor to this game so badly xD ... I'll be back in a year or two.
 
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