We are working on releasing the modding tools but I am not in the position of giving estimates because I am not working directly on it.
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So, is a major code refactor a common or normal thing?
- Thread starter stevepine
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Any chance to get any updates? Its been 1 1/2 month since the last patch i mean i know that the community support can only give as much info as you guys get from the devs, but... do you guys never talk to each other? Or only once every fullmoon?
I don't know where and why do you get the impression of the developers are not aware of each other. Of course, the teams are talking to each other.
But, I can't deny the fact that our working methods had to changes thanks to the pandemic.
There is a reason for coding songs like this
99 little bugs in the code
99 little bugs
Fixed one now, patch it around
112 little bugs in the code
or the really geeky one
100 buckets of bits on the bus
100 buckets of bits
Take one down, sort it to ground
FF buckets of bits on the bus
A thing only a coder will understand...almost impossible to explain to someone also since there really isnt anything else like it.
IKEA furniture.
You start with a mess of parts that go together with seemingly no rhyme or reason, have to occasionally dissemble whole sections of it because of something you missed, have bits left over which you have no idea what they are for, and secretly want to murder pretty much anyone who "helped" you with it by the end.
HYPE!!!!!!!!! some news is better then no news
With the extra insanity of having many people building it only they are not in the same "room" as you so you dont know if anyone else did it wrong or if you did or if what they did, broke the part you are building.
SavageCanadian96
Banned
I am Positive I will like what is coming and in all honesty id rather you guys take your time and do things right then rush it out but I keep hearing about these Code refactor things and some of my Mods in my playthrough have Bugs but the Dev for the Mods is refusing to fix them till the refactor is out thats why i was asking.
markp27
Sergeant
Why would they fix them before? They will probably break again afterwards, better to wait.
Coding generally follow's Sod's Law (if English) or Murphy's Law (if American), and that is precisely why everything is delayed at the moment. Hoping that we will see an update this week from some of the hints given by devs. But nothing in life is guaranteed.
Scardan Youmans
Recruit
Is it common for a software that was 8 years of development and then sold for good chunk of money?
I am curious af, why they do this, why was this not possible to make earlier and why this game was sold unpolished despite the words of company boss who said in one of the interview that the game will go out only polished so they "do not miss the hype"(c) Armagan at Road to Gamescome i forgot the year. Not a criticism in any way, I already wrote it enough earlier, it just doesn't reach me how you can work in such chaotic way so you have redo your code after selling the game and contradict yourself. Yes, I'm one of those narrow-minded people who live by the principle - as I said, so I will do in future despite everything that changes.
By the way, I look at it positively. I expect that the new code will work better and that in the process of work they will revise the design of faces, ui and other things that could be made a little more beautiful. Well, maybe they will fix the siege AI as well and make it more cinematic.
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I mean it hasn't gone gold yet so they haven't really violated their statement.
Thelior
Sergeant at Arms
Such a huge refactor might not be that common in this stage of development, it would probably be better to continuously refactor smaller parts of the code, but when I see the ****storms that break loose every time an update breaks some small feature or just a mod, then I would favor a big refactor over the normal process. Sure you also get a ****storm, but hopefully a few less in the future.
And additionally, even if the timing might not be optimal, it is better to do it now, before they release the modding tools or add more features, that could break again after the refactor.
I guess it will be easier to mod then. The update may not be as soon as we hoped for. Sometimes you can't keep everyone happy.
Better be fast, so people can fix your game for free.
musashii89
Banned
Only in low budget/poorly planned game studios like this one. They over reached, tried to implement a whole new engine or some **** and obviously did not have an adequate development plan post EA release.
We get that impression because many changes have broken as many things as they have fixed and TW has given us about zero communication on the games dev direction. I do not understand how this studio is so.....blase. This isnt the first in this title series and the modding community is huge and active.I don't know where and why do you get the impression of the developers are not aware of each other. Of course, the teams are talking to each other.
But, I can't deny the fact that our working methods had to changes thanks to the pandemic.
All required resources seem available, what is the unseen constraint making dev work so slow?
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Thelior
Sergeant at Arms
I don't think they overreached, they have experience in creating an own engine and the current one seams to be quite stable. The most crashes I've seen seem to come from errors in the game code.
But according to some Glassdoor reviews I read, the company seems to have problems with their project management and decision-making, even though they seem to be a nice company to work for. That could explain the messy code of a long grown project and the need to refactor.
And in my opinion this is the exact point why they decided to do a major refactor instead of smaller ones, because they kept breaking things.
They should definitively get better at explaining such huge decisions. We don't need to be included in every small step, but the large ones should be communicated better. Even the simple and updated info that they are refactoring at the moment along with the estimated status posted here (and maybe even in the steam activities) would be enough to show some progress and prevent at least some of those "they don't do anything" posts.
musashii89
Banned
The community is now polling at 'this release was a POS' on average and the crashing player population supports this. As such they clearly overreached (custom code/engine requires MORE then average organization and project management).
Your not wrong, a refactor is definately needed, but an astute company would hve come to that conclusion ages ago. I dont think anyone is asking to be told everything, but the current level of communication with the community is beyond f*cked. I gave up reporting bugs, whats the point if we have no idea if they even read it let alone work on it?
Thelior
Sergeant at Arms
I would rather say the release was over hyped and suffered mostly because of missing content. If you compare it directly to an also way over hyped SP game like Fallout 4 the statistics look more or less the same. (I know that Bannerlord isn't SP only, but I don't think the multiplayer part plays a huge role in overall player numbers.)
Discovering the need of a refactor is not always easy on long-running projects. People tend to get used to bad habits to the point they don't see them anymore, developers are not an exception. You can work against this if you let different teams review each other's code. But this requires some involvement of the project/team managers and additional time, especially if you want them to make suggestions to improve the code.
Yeah, the communication is terrible(with a few exceptions like mexxiko), although it could be worse, which doesn't mean they shouldn't try to improve.
I can't fully agree to extend the communication problems to the bug reports though. At least not in a way that they simply don't talk to the community. While browsing the bug report section from time to time I get the impression most reports are read and tagged, but sometimes just don't seam to get delegated correctly. Perhaps this comes from their management problems or it's just that the large number of reports (especially the duplicate ones and those where the reporting user doesn't provide enough information) can't really be handled efficiently in form of a forum and a switch to a real bugtracker like (for example) mantis, bugzilla or redmine would be beneficial and free needed manpower.
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