So I decided to be a Vaegir....

[NJSQRL]

With my Merc contract with Swadia being up (for the third time now) I decided to give the Vaegirs another shot as they are the one faction I never really played with all that much.

I disbanded a large portion of my knights, huscarls, and sharpshooters and went out to recruit Vaegir troops then swore allegiance to Yargolak.

I quickly found myself at war with the Nords.. Things went well at first... then my remaining retinue from mercenary life had slowly died off leaving me to fight with only Vaegir troops. I prefer heavy infantry to cavalry/archer heavy armies but I am finding that difficult to do with the Vaegirs. Yes their higher tier infantry has nice shiny 2 handed weapons of death doom and destruction... I see them strewn about on the battle field laying next to the pincushined corpses courtesy of your friendly neighborhood Nord archers.

My cavalry limited as it is does its job, not well but not poorly either. It seems the only redeeming quality in the Vaegir army (which I already knew) is their archers.

So far the only strategy I can find that seems to work is leading my cavalry behind enemy lines and then charging.. hopefully turning the huscarls toward us giving my archers clear shots at their back sides. While effective enough to significantly lower my casualties.. they are still too high for my liking.

so now I come to you and ask...what are some effect ways, if any exist, to use the Vaegirs?

 

[Ludial]

Go either only marksmen or only knights. Marksmen are obvious. As for knights - steppe chargers+2h axes= truckloads of dead Nords. I once had a battle where my force of 40(about 30 of them actually knights, the rest horsemen and vets) exterminated a force of 240 Nords. The only thing that really caused casualties on my side(some 10 dead knights) was Jarl Turegor on his hunter and with his great axe chopping up my men from behind(yeah, like a Vaegir knight, only faster and harder hitting).

Now, the trick with these guys is to make sure they get their thundering charge. There's no better cavalry weapon than something long and choppy, so these guys can really do a lot if they can hit the enemy fast and hard and keep moving. So make sure you're fighting Nords only on terrain favoring cavalry; charging downhill only to end up in a river on the bottom of a gorge is not an option - you have to be able to keep moving. Once the enemy formation is broken on the charge, the knights will be able to finish the job if they keep moving. Vaegir knights are assault cavalry first and foremost, so they can't afford to be bogged down. They really hit hard and would kill anything, but only as long as they can keep moving(yes, I can't stress it enough).

 

[NJSQRL]

I don't like the idea of 1 troop only armies.. but I will increase my Knights from 15 to 30 and see if that does anything (my army is currently able to be 95 strong).

Archers are already making up a large chunk of my army... will ditch a few infantry to make room for the Knights.

 

[Ludial]

well, me don't like combined arms. I prefer things to be simple. But if you're that bent on using combined arms, then go only cav and archers. And yes, one knight for every two archers seems to be the right ratio. Use the same trick as the AI - just charge the knights into the enemy and have the archers stay close behind and shoot. A disordered force with enemy close combatants in its midst falls like wheat to nearby archers. Also the knights are better at taking out routing enemies due to moving faster.

 

[gutsaxe]

Try using vaegir infantry? they seem to have more shields than their crazy colleagues the Guards.. When I put them in a shieldwall they can beat anything up to Nord veterans!

But I personally just use the Knights and archers like Ludail Suggests

 

[Ludial]

Try using vaegir infantry? they seem to have more shields than their crazy colleagues the Guards.. When I put them in a shieldwall they can beat anything up to Nord veterans!

put them up against missile troops or heavy cav and they'll die. Infantry is useless due to being both slow and lacking ranged weapons. both archers and cav are better options because of the simple fact of being able to get to the enemy faster(it's about initiative).

 

[NJSQRL]

I tried the lower tiers... the veterans are nice because some are mounted and use blunt weapons but other than that they pretty much fail.

 

[Ludial]

I tried the lower tiers... the veterans are nice because some are mounted and use blunt weapons but other than that they pretty much fail.

that's because Vaegir troops in general are inefficient. The knights are pretty damn deadly nevertheless.

 

[NJSQRL]

I tried the lower tiers... the veterans are nice because some are mounted and use blunt weapons but other than that they pretty much fail.

that's because Vaegir troops in general are inefficient. The knights are pretty damn deadly nevertheless.

True enough... however if there is anything that all my time spent as a Nord has taught me... The right combination of Vaegir Veterans, Infantry, and Archers/Marksmen make for one hell of a siege defense.

 

[Cutpurse3]

True enough... however if there is anything that all my time spent as a Nord has taught me... The right combination of Vaegir Veterans, Infantry, and Archers/Marksmen make for one hell of a siege defense.

Troo dat.
From my own experience, place the spearmen with shields in 1 line, then your little band of mounted, barichide-weilding rapists behind them and at the very back, your archers. The breaks between lines should be fairly big.
When the enemy infantry attacks your spearmen (if the enemy has no cav), take your little band of mounted, barichidie-weilding rapists and massacre their archers. (If they have any)
Your spearmen probably suffered some losses now so you want to help them.
Ram the enemy from behind closing them in a circle.

Also, if the enemy has cavalry there is a problem, get your little band of MBWR to dismount in front of the spearmen, so when the enemy cav charges, they will be stopped by the horses then, take your little band of dismounted, barichide-weilding rapists and turn the enemy cav into dust, mount your horses and do the paragraph above.

Battle won! Press TAB to exit.

 

[Baron Conrad]

If you are going to use a lot of archers try this:

Split your archers into two groups.

Put group one on a hill and order group two follow you.

Move out onto the flank and when the nord mass starts moving in on group one get your men on the side and pepper them.


Optionally you can replace group one with infantry so they have a better chance when the nords reach them but then you take the risk of the enemy attacking group 2 and then your infantry aren't gonna help much.

 

[NJSQRL]

Tempting but I am going to follow Ludials advice for the most part and see how that does for me (nasty case of peace just broke out so might be a while).

My army can now be 103 strong, that leaves me 99 troops after my companions.

I am planning something along the lines of this...

30 Knights which will be with me making runs at the enemy lines harassing them and forcing them to turn their backs on my archers.

45 Marksmen to pepper the enemy.

and the remaining 24 be guards...yeah still a liability without the shield but I watched as 3 of them tore through a dozen nord veterans in my last battle making me want to hang on to them a bit longer... if that fails I will go with infantry as they have a shield.

 

[cypruss11]

I have taken over Vaegirs with the nords now and i use:
35 - Huscarls (Nords)
20 - Marksman (Vaegirs)
3 - Companions (Bunduk Ymira and Jeremus)

 

[Ule]

the game I'm currently playing I'm sworn to the vaegirs.

like ya self i found them really hard to use at the start, the veterans sometimes  mounted sometimes not can really mess your lines up, but their high tier troops are brilliant.

a few things i do to make them more usefull is:
1. make a group for veterans only, that way if they all mounted you can use as cav, or if just a few are tell them to dismount and use them with your inf.
2. don't bother keeping your troops as mid levels, once they a skirmisher/footman get them ranked up fast as ya can.
3. use battle lines, they are mostly shieldless, so don't let them run around keep em in formations, inf then archers.
4. lead your cav, at least for the initial charge so they don't get stuck in ruckus with the foe, which leads to them being chopped down.
5. don't be afraid to mix in other units, mercs/hired swords, khergits etc
6. ignore all inf and go all out cavalry!!! even companions!!!

i use mostly point 6 now, and with 55 ish (i can have 120 men) mixed cav horsemen and knights/some vets i can wipe the nords of the map when they outnumber me 3 to 1. the nord now have 1 castle and its village left, we've taken all of the nords lands and their lords are being murdered everytime they go against myself or other lords. so the vaegirs don't suck as much as people think, just have to use tactics with them.


PS: against swadia, you do need a footman/archers base.

 

[NJSQRL]

I hate the idea of all cavarly armies... yeah its fine against something like the Khergits since they are 99% mounted anyway but against anything that has a large portion of its army on the ground (everyone not Khergit) its just unfair.

The only time I have ever gone cavalry only I was playing a marauder (looted burned and attacked anything and everything) and then only merc cavalry and recruited prisoners (mounted only)... with that it worked with what I was doing and wasn't too horribly sit back and watch my army win type of a thing because I was soon at war with every nation and had to break into towns just to get more troops.

 

[DanAngleland]

I think a lot of the trouble the OP is having is simply that he is fighting Nords, who have that stupid invisible forcefield due to excessive shield skill points. They should be easier for archers to hit. They choose to take the smaller, faster round shields, yet are barely more vulnerable to arrows than a Rhodok with a board shield. Cavalry often aren't as effective as they should be either as too many places are undulating, and a lot of the areas in Nord and Vaegir lands result in those tiny maps which are a relic of older M&B versions- the river and forest ones where the enemy starts almost on top of you.

 

[NJSQRL]

I think a lot of the trouble the OP is having is simply that he is fighting Nords, who have that stupid invisible forcefield due to excessive shield skill points. They should be easier for archers to hit. They choose to take the smaller, faster round shields, yet are barely more vulnerable to arrows than a Rhodok with a board shield. Cavalry often aren't as effective as they should be either as too many places are undulating, and a lot of the areas in Nord and Vaegir lands result in those tiny maps which are a relic of older M&B versions- the river and forest ones where the enemy starts almost on top of you.

I thought so as well but when we went up against the Swadians (currently Swadia and Khergits...) I went back to my infantry/archer heavy army just to see if the Nords were my problem.... Knights tore through my Guards like they weren't even there.. granted once I managed to stop the Knights the few remaining Guards made a nice mess of them. But alas I am back to my modified army arangement... using my Knights to take out their Knights and letting my marksmen beat the snot out of their infantry/crossbowmen.

Although I am thinking of leaving the Vaegirs in one form or another... Yargolak is just...ugh.

Not more than 3 days after the war with the Nords ended he declared war on Swadia... the largest of the factions (thanks in part to me being a merc for them and taking several lands). The war waged on and when we finally wittled away at the Swadian Knights and got them down to mostly man at arms and militia... he declares war on the Khergits... the second most powerful faction (in terms of army size.

Then he decides that since we took Dhirim it should be time for a feast to celebrate! Meanwhile the brunt of the Swadian army has besieged Dhirim (I didnt even try to defend it) and the Khergits are rampaging around Curaw taking lands/looting villages.. so what happens 2 days after the first feast ends? He has another! Brilliant... at 83 (having trouble recruiting) I hold the single largest force in the Vaegir army... Yargolek is down to 72 and has the second largest by 20.. Mine however are mostly recruits and whatnot as I just havent gotten the funds together to upgrade them yet.. I burned through the 160k I had stashed away from my mercenary days already replacing troops and crap.. all I can do is wait for the week to be over, collect what little I can from my dyeworks (3 of my 5 are in swadian territory so no money) and try upgrading a few more troops while avoiding Khergit patrols and hunting sea raiders.



---
Well I foolishly tried to take Tibault Castle... it only had a garrison of 50 afterall. I took it with easy, only a handful of casualties ( I still don't have a reliable doctor type character.. just Ymira with her 2 in Surgery. Then the Khergits besieged it...small army only 60 men we fought them off with ease.. followed by the biggest BS ever..

Apparently the NPC's can besiege a town while it is already besieged. The Swadians followed the Khergit attack immediately with their own force which crushed my little army and I was again, for the second time (both as a Vaegir vassal oddly enough) was taken prisoner.

On the plus side the war with Swadia is now over and the Sultinate has declared war on the Khergits which should give us some relief. However we only have 10 days until the truce with the Nords expires... hopefully Ragnar will be smart for once and just focus on the war he is currently in (Swadia) and not try to fight on two fronts...

 

[DanAngleland]

Oh dear. Are you going to stick with the Vaegirs? Might be best to jump ship at the earliest opportunity! I hate it if my faction has the unhealthy habit of taking on new enemies when they are already getting beaten up...

 

[Ludial]

Just a tip - train a small(~50-60) force of Vaegir knights and go rampaging with them through the lands of the enemy - caravans, villages, stray lords. That's the only way to turn the tables in your situation. The tactic is called chevauchée, by the way.

 

[NJSQRL]

Just a tip - train a small(~50-60) force of Vaegir knights and go rampaging with them through the lands of the enemy - caravans, villages, stray lords. That's the only way to turn the tables in your situation. The tactic is called chevauchée, by the way.

I sort of took your advice.... Even though I hadn't read this yet when I did it.

I hired a good bit of Mercenary cavalry while I was in Rhodok lands for the tournaments...all 3 of their towns had one at the same time... was odd but profitable none the less. Combined with my stops in Sargoth, Tihr, Curaw, and Reyvadin I managed to pull together nearly 50 of them and I had a few left over from when I was scrambling to piece my army back together.

I have no intrest in holding Khergit lands so I followed the main army just for extra security... when they went off to besiege a castle or town I attacked caravans, villages, villagers, and small bands of Khergit troops around it... been quite profitable for me.

Thanks to all those raided caravans and villages my dyworks are stocked with silk and dye...and churning out a little over 2k each weak for me, other goods I have been selling back to the Khergits.. not enough inventory space to keep it all for the trip back to Vaegir lands.