Sneaking into town - how?

[Lesbosisles]

Hello, everyone!

Can someone please explain me how does this "Disguise and sneak..." thing work in Bannerlord?

Like, in Warband, if my memory doesn't fail me, the success chance was calculates on the basis of your renown+your party size. If you leave your soldiers in a castle garrisson for a while, the chance was getting higher.

But in Bannerlord I see no difference, I always get like 4% chance, sometimes the chance goes down below zero! Tried to leave my troops in a castle and came into the town with only 2 companions - the chance was still 4%. Rougery level is about 60 or something, but it doesn't seem to change anything.

So, is it even working mechanic or another "To be implemented some day, some time?".

 

[Zwade]

None of the perks for roguery work, so I wouldn't be surprised if roguery, as it is described in the skills/character page, doesn't fully work either. I guess the only way to test is to get your roguery up to an appreciable number greater than 60(like 80 or 100) and try again. But, it might depend on other factors as well(maybe garrison size or relation with clan that owns the town etc.) so it might not be a true test.
http://www.bannerlordperks.com/perk does not list sneaking into towns in his analysis of things referenced by code, so I usually take that as it is 'yet to be implemented'.

 

[federally]

This whole "feature" is a joke. The punishment for failure is so incredibly significant. Why would anyone ever do this without save scumming?

How is this idea even supposed to be a fun gameplay conceit with interesting results?

 

[Liffy]

I wouldnt bother I dont think you can jail break anyone yet. Also I'm guessing it will be tied to the rogue skill which imo should be a clan assigned role like scout, surgeon etc.

I only raise rougery from selling prisoners so it's never going to raise much.

 

[Bannerman Man]

This whole "feature" is a joke. The punishment for failure is so incredibly significant. Why would anyone ever do this without save scumming?

How is this idea even supposed to be a fun gameplay conceit with interesting results?

What significant punishment are you speaking of, exactly? The punishment is actually very reasonable in my opinion. A few days lost, some criminal rating (whatever that is), a little bit of optional ransom, and off you go.

 

[Lesbosisles]

What significant punishment are you speaking of, exactly? The punishment is actually very reasonable in my opinion. A few days lost, some criminal rating (whatever that is), a little bit of optional ransom, and off you go.

In WB you were given a chance to escape or fight your way through the guards.

In Bannerlord you have no choice and the more renown you gain, the lower is your chance to sneak into the settlement. And if I ynderstand correctly, there is no way to increase the chance whatsoever.

 

[stringman7113]

I wouldnt bother I dont think you can jail break anyone yet.

This is correct. So far there is no way to break prisoners out. They ransom themselves way too quickly and the only dialogue I get when talking to a prisoner is "I am not allowed to talk to you."

 

[federally]

What significant punishment are you speaking of, exactly? The punishment is actually very reasonable in my opinion. A few days lost, some criminal rating (whatever that is), a little bit of optional ransom, and off you go.

You lose your entire party.

That's the absurd punishment.

Your troops just evaporate into thin air

 

[Bannerman Man]

Okay, so I looked into what I believe is the formula for calculating sneak chance, and here is how it currently appears to work:

It factors in the player's roguery skill, the player's renown, and the average troop level of the garrison.

By average troop level I mean that the levels (not tiers) of each garrison troop are added together and divided by the total number of garrison troops. So, having a single level 31 troop (which is tier 6) counts the same as having one hundred level 31 troops in the garrison (because 31/1 = 31 and 3100/100 = 31). It also means, for example, that having a lone Battanian Fian Champion as the entire garrison is better than having 1 Battanian Fian Champion and 99 Battanian Volunteers in the garrison (because the Volunteers drag the average level down).

Here's the actual formula:

Sneak Chance = (0.003 x Roguery) - (0.0002 x Renown) - (0.005 x Average Level of Garrison Troops) + 0.3

Multiply the sneak chance by 100 to get the percentage.

The reason some people are seeing negative sneak chances is because their renown is massive and their roguery skill is comparatively small. So for example, let's say a player's roguery is level 25, their renown is 3000, and the average garrison level of the town in question is 11 (only tier 2 troops). We can calculate the sneak chance as : (0.003 x 25) - (0.0002 x 3000) - (0.005 x 11) + 0.3 = -0.28 x 100 = -28%. If we hold all those numbers constant except change the player's roguery to 275, then the sneak chance becomes 47%. So, while it's obvious that the minimum sneak chance should be capped at 0, roguery skill actually plays a large role in determining sneak chances.

Edit: Another way to look at it is that every level of roguery skill negates 15 points of renown.

Also, the code has references to grappling hooks and guard fights on failure, so more features may be in the works (that should be pretty obvious to everyone by now).

You lose your entire party.

That's false. You have obviously never tried this feature, because your party goes to prison with you and is returned when you are released.

Edit: How Lesbosisles describes it is probably more accurate. Your party wouldn't be captured if you were trying to sneak in alone, just you; so it's more sensible that they would be waiting for you outside (not to mention you can actually see them standing there waiting on the campaign map).

 

[Lesbosisles]

You lose your entire party.

That's the absurd punishment.

Your troops just evaporate into thin air

Nah, when you're getting caught during sneaking in - your troops just stand outside the city, waiting for you to escape or ransom yourself.

 

[Bannerman Man]

@Lesbosisles I don't know if you saw my post above yours because we posted almost simultaneously, but I answered your original question.

 

[Lesbosisles]

@Lesbosisles I don't know if you saw my post above yours because we posted almost simultaneously, but I answered your original question.

Yep, saw it. Kinda complicated though, and it seems there's almost no chance for a succesful sneaking in, since the AI tends to leave large garrisons in towns + militia.

 

[Bannerman Man]

Yep, saw it. Kinda complicated though, and it seems there's almost no chance for a succesful sneaking in, since the AI tends to leave large garrisons in towns + militia.

Size of the garrison plays no part though, only average level. I calculated the average level of a few garrisons and they tend to be roughly around level 12 to 13, so plug one of those numbers in as an estimate when calculating your sneak chances. Also, I don't believe militia troops are included in the count, as the actual line in the code used to call the troop roster is: Town.GarrisonParty.MemberRoster

The reason for low sneak success would either be too low roguery skill or too high renown, so if you have a low chance of success, then continue training your roguery.

 

[Hugo_Stiglitz]

I miss the whole night time and intrigue experience from Viking Conquest where you had to do certain things in cities at night. Also having all the guards in city chasing you and being ambushed on occasion by assassins or thugs when entering city at night.

Hoping quests and story lines will include night time excursions sneaking around the city. And I dont mean using the "sneak" thing check in an enemy city. I'm talking about any city at night, friendly or enemy. Where our "civilian" attire loadouts eventually come into play where we can do things like use throwing daggers in the city and have some of our companions fighting with us in their civilian loadouts.

 

[Bannerman Man]

@Lesbosisles So by using the equation and taking the numbers you gave in the OP, I can tell that your renown was probably around 1875 at the time.

I miss the whole night time and intrigue experience from Viking Conquest where you had to do certain things in cities at night. Also having all the guards in city chasing you and being ambushed on occasion by assassins or thugs when entering city at night.

Hoping quests and story lines will include night time excursions sneaking around the city. And I dont mean using the "sneak" thing check in an enemy city. I'm talking about any city at night, friendly or enemy. Where our "civilian" attire loadouts eventually come into play where we can do things like use throwing daggers in the city and have some of our companions fighting with us in their civilian loadouts.

I think more features will come with time. The grappling hook that I mentioned in my other post is an actual inventory item that can only be used at night. Then the guard fight seems to take place on the wall, so I could envision a quest or task that involves sneaking into the town at night for some purpose and fighting guards if you're caught. I think the whole roguery/criminal aspect of the game right now just hasn't been developed that much yet.

 

[Lesbosisles]

@Lesbosisles So by using the equation and taking the numbers you gave in the OP, I can tell that your renown was probably around 1875 at the time.

Yeah, I suppose it was something like this, cause now I have +-2200 renown.

The grappling hook that I mentioned in my other post is an actual inventory item that can only be used at night

May I ask where did u find an info about grappling hook and all stuff you've mentioned?

 

[Bannerman Man]

May I ask where did u find an info about grappling hook and all stuff you've mentioned?

The stuff about grappling hooks is found in the game_menu_castle_town_sneak_grappling_hook_on_consequence and game_menu_town_sneak_grappling_hook_on_condition functions in the TaleWorlds.CampaignSystem.SandBox.CampaignBehaviors.EncounterGameMenuBehavior class.

Within the TaleWorlds.CampaignSystem.SandBox.GameMenusCallbacks class is the stuff about fighting on a wall on sneak failure. This is found in the conversation_sneak_caught_fight_on_consequence function. On second look it doesn't specify anything about guards, but there is another function called mno_continue_sneak_into_town_caught_dispersed_guards_on_consequence that makes it sound like you fight and disperse guards after being caught.

I want to be clear that this is all purely conjecture on my part; the functions in question are pretty basic and I could be misinterpreting their meaning or they could be abandoned or unrelated features.

The formula for sneak chance success is found in the TaleWorlds.CampaignSystem.SandBox.GameComponents.Map.DefaultDisguiseDetectionModel class.