Smithing selling nerf

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ashize9879

Recruit
Just noticed after I traded in my smithed swords in game after the latest update

What's up with the nerf?

I remember seeing people saying they wanted smithed weapon prices to go down, but, it doesn't make any sense. Smithed weapon prices have been nerfed time and time again since the start of the game, where they were was just fine

Thus I ask, please un-nerf the Smithing prices

The only way to get any good sales prices for smithed items is by experimentation in game and leveling the smithing stat, and unlocking the parts at varying rates of time. Those that know the game well know where to go to buy, smelt, and achieve results quickly, but thats from hours of learning. I have likely 200 hours in, that's the only reason I know what I know, and that's including time spent to relearn when Smithing was changed from its original model of spears being sold for 125k.

In the original days, everyone can agree Smithing prices hit the ceiling and we can grant some latitude on too many high price smithed items in an inventory

However, the new ceiling recently was only at 75k - 78k, maybe 79k with the best stats on a two handed sword

This being majorly nerfed vs prices in the market for equipment and bows being worth over 200k, which comes off unfair when you are at smithing 250 or higher.

Realism in the game I understand needs balance, however, that implies also being the best Smith comes with being paid accordingly for best products.

Please un-nerf the Smithed items
 
No way, it is still too high and in the wrong (right?) hands it is just an infinite money printer without much effort at all. It doesn't make sense that a level 10 smith can turn a profit on everything they make, smithing should COST you money until you're at a sufficient skill level.
 

Alcedo

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
It should be nerfed more. The problem with weapon prices is that they do not reflect the materials they are worth. Right now I can use 1 wood and 2 fine steel to get a weapon worth 10k. Meanwhile I can get the said resources from 1 pugio, worth about 250. Now, the difficulty is to balance parts so that weapon stats correlate the materials. I believe that at some point we'll achieve this.
Alternative solution - make smithing take time and remove the smithing stamina so that you can't craft dozens of complex weapons in a fraction of an in-game second. But it will be most likely annoying for most of the players.
 

Ask

Sergeant
Ceiling is 78k, cities with high prosperity have a budget of about 90-110k denars... Why would you need them to be any more expensive?

There should be a general drop in prices everywhere, money from smithing should come from orders mostly and that's it. I love the idea of crafting your own unique weapons but the whole money printing aspect of it makes me really hate the skill.
 

ashize9879

Recruit
I am speaking of the nerf from the most recent update bringing the most expensive weapon down to 38k max profit

Which is more than half the price of 78k it was previously.

This is what I mean by please un-nerf

Addressing the towns, towns refill money at a gradual amount, this being 20k to maybe a higher amount if your lucky (may be based off prosperity as was said)

The blacksmithing itself getting profits of 78k is not unrealistic, especially when you have a bow thats worth over 200k from the marketplace.

A sword being metal, more time consuming, of higher quality, if we are addressing realism, that's a big problem

In history we see bows would use little to no metal, a substance for the string between, and wood, and....thats about it.

Swords on the other hand gradually scales up from iron to steel, and higher grades of steel or better metals, which the game does a good job of showing.

The game as well has done an excellent job on showing pricing for weapons such as swords being worth much more than a regular wood weapon, because realistically...this is realistic

Thus, if we do want to hit realism,, we have to admit if a bow can be 200k at it's best. The best sword would be worth 300-400k at least

Not saying this is how the price for swords should be, this is to address what is being said on realism in game.
 

ashize9879

Recruit
The money printing thing, in the derogatory sense that's being proposed, ... let's discuss

I've brought up in another forum that we can agree as a starter Smith at level 1 it shouldn't be expected that you'll make much, or succeed. This is true

At the version before the current one making weapons at between lvl 1 and 25, with gaining recipes within the same weapon that you are making becoming more common, allowing quicker succession to better and quality, you would begin making (if you gain 2 handed Sword recipes to build on to start) around 200 followed by upwards to 500 and 1000 by the time you reach into level 25 or up to 50

This is only at lvl 25-50. We don't hit 10k until...not sure off hand, but it takes a bit of time, say for now it's at least level 50-75 or 100. This is usually where we were hitting 20k and starting to pump out levels and money weapons

At level 100 and up we were starting to keep our profits, by going around to cities, at 100k and climbing

For Smith Bannerlord gamers this is where we would use Smithing to gain money up to 1 mil or higher to use towards war efforts upcoming

Smithing then becomes used for purposes of trading for armors and weapons to level up troops, as well as diplomatic relations with Lord's to gain them to your side

As of the current update, this becomes a lot more difficult due to Lord's costing between 200k - 500k (and upwards) depending, perhaps on charm level or otherwise, and the max Smith weapons costing 38k. Thus this becomes very nerfed

As of now, I haven't tested this, I have heard the various weapons have become balanced in smithing, in that now two handed spears cost similar to two handed swords, and beginner weapons likely still cost a max of 100-200 gold per, allowing gradual profit to keep overhead and further trade stats, which allows ferrying of grain or other goods to gain profit while furthering the Smithing stat



Let me go ahead and ask before going further. Are we going against Smithing because we have something against the high profits because it's too easy a playstyle for you? Or because your coming from a legitimate point?

Because, whilst understandably a low tier Smith will make little to nothing to start, which the game has done fairly well on giving gradual profits to start, the game has kept the realism on Two handed weapons, using the most steel, and among the highest damage weapons, costing the most.

So are we going at the game is too easy for you and you want it harder?

Because...right now...the game is pretty balanced. Smithing has been majorly nerfed from where it was

This has been addressed
 

ashize9879

Recruit
If someone is playing the game not wanting to Smith, that's fine. But if your agenda is I don't like Smithing because it makes money, and your allowed to sell your weapons at marketplaces. That's not realistic and doesn't fit the game

People have done so for thousands of years

If you don't want to play with Smithing, don't play it. There are many players who do not.

Before, with Swords at a max of 78k, that was fine. We did not need the nerf down to 38k. That was to appease players who didn't want profit by Smithing and kept ranting about it

It's been done down to 38k, which was not needed, and I very much disagree with players

If someone can provide a legitimate reason for why, I will listen, but if it's unrealistic, or is just basically I want a harder game, your in the wrong place. There are many ways to play the game and experiment which allow you to play your own way and is a lot of fun

Do not force what you want on other people, regardless of what's great for the game and works for others
 

ashize9879

Recruit
No way, it is still too high and in the wrong (right?) hands it is just an infinite money printer without much effort at all. It doesn't make sense that a level 10 smith can turn a profit on everything they make, smithing should COST you money until you're at a sufficient skill level.
Apologies for the rant, I think we know each other's points. I agree on learning Smithing should have some failure

I think the beginning Smithing...the game does a pretty good job of balancing it. In they want to give some minimum price for goods. So making a crappy sword or spear or some random good they'll give out like 50 gold to 200 depending.

Can they alter and advance the system. Yes

However, I will say that whether they do or don't, they've done a pretty good job
 

Oltopeteeh

Recruit
Arena 250 coins per win. Always available. This is fine.
Tournament 1500+prize+perks. Also normal, because they are not always held.
Forge ... Wood 25 coins, ore 50, processing of materials: coal and simple iron 16+ coins each. Each tier x2 price, up to 512+ coins for damascus steel.
With a recipe of about 8 Damascus (2p sword), the sale should not exceed the price of resources by several orders of magnitude.
This is common sense.
Just imagine looters starting to drop items with no bad traits, as if fresh from the forge. Profits will become imbalanced. And getting 250k for the arena is not normal. People understand this.
But the sale from the forge is a sacred cow, or what? o_O
 

Ask

Sergeant
Before, with Swords at a max of 78k, that was fine. We did not need the nerf down to 38k. That was to appease players who didn't want profit by Smithing and kept ranting about it
Oh no, now you need to craft 2 swords to get as much money as you did before! Hold on while I need to travel all the way from Askar with 150 desert horses with herd penalty all the way to Vlandia to make 20k in profits
 

ashize9879

Recruit
Oh no, now you need to craft 2 swords to get as much money as you did before! Hold on while I need to travel all the way from Askar with 150 desert horses with herd penalty all the way to Vlandia to make 20k in profits
Ok...these two points have nothing to do with each other

Arena 250 coins per win. Always available. This is fine.
Tournament 1500+prize+perks. Also normal, because they are not always held.
Forge ... Wood 25 coins, ore 50, processing of materials: coal and simple iron 16+ coins each. Each tier x2 price, up to 512+ coins for damascus steel.
With a recipe of about 8 Damascus (2p sword), the sale should not exceed the price of resources by several orders of magnitude.
This is common sense.
Just imagine looters starting to drop items with no bad traits, as if fresh from the forge. Profits will become imbalanced. And getting 250k for the arena is not normal. People understand this.
But the sale from the forge is a sacred cow, or what? o_O
And this is about arena profits, not Smithing
 

ashize9879

Recruit
Arena 250 coins per win. Always available. This is fine.
Tournament 1500+prize+perks. Also normal, because they are not always held.
Forge ... Wood 25 coins, ore 50, processing of materials: coal and simple iron 16+ coins each. Each tier x2 price, up to 512+ coins for damascus steel.
With a recipe of about 8 Damascus (2p sword), the sale should not exceed the price of resources by several orders of magnitude.
This is common sense.
Just imagine looters starting to drop items with no bad traits, as if fresh from the forge. Profits will become imbalanced. And getting 250k for the arena is not normal. People understand this.
But the sale from the forge is a sacred cow, or what? o_O
And if your going to apply materials vs profit, you need to understand economics

A person that crafts an object out of simple wood that in real life could cost no more than 100-200 dollars can be worth several thousand per. Real wood furniture in the current Era is highly expensive

In relation to the past, goods regarding war and high class were considered of a high price. I've said this before. The current price of the best bow on the market is 200k. History tells us that bows were worth maybe half of what a sword would be. Steel and iron weapons and armor, costing more in materials, as you say, would cost more overall

Applying the same concept as for the wood furniture, history also teaches us that as the quality of the good goes higher, just as the bow is 200k the sword would reach upwards of 400k

Now for the game this has been discussed, and me and other players have already agreed hitting ceiling profits we do not need. The issue has been on the beginning of Smithing, in that it was too easy to make profits. It gets varying criticism in that Tale World's has done a good job trying to give some profit for any developed weapon and has critiqued it, so we are getting very close. They are willing to update and alter, and make the game better so we can see a more improved Smithing start

The issue being the starting smithing, the same players also agree that as you get to the higher tiers of smithing profits should increase and be worth high amounts.
 

ashize9879

Recruit
Oh no, now you need to craft 2 swords to get as much money as you did before! Hold on while I need to travel all the way from Askar with 150 desert horses with herd penalty all the way to Vlandia to make 20k in profits
Using your reference of horses, history also teaches us, as well as any game using a crafting/sale system, that no trade good will ever exceed the price of a higher tier crafting goods.

In history we have art, weapons, armor, in this time period, and more specifically game, we have items specifically laid out to be applicable to the player experience such as pottery, leather, velvet, and food goods. Horses are the highest pay out goods, but they max out, with Aserai horses hitting a maximum of...2k+ or so. Them being so rare and breeding mechanic being at 10%, and no idea currently how to get more really, in one's inventory, as I don't usually see much breeding occurring, even with days spent, you'd end up with net of maybe 100k if you managed 150 equal to the Desert Horse sale

This due to profits quickly decline with horses upon sale

Trade goods max out at a certain point. They are...Whilst can be rare at certain places, their price only varies so much. They end up in an entirely seperate category vs crafting goods due to this. A grain of grain will only be worth a max of like 20 or 20+ depending on rarity. Thats as far as it goes.

However, using an equivalent, if we apply the horse sale, like you said, and now say we were to sell the best racing horse, best agile horse, best horse in all the world. How much would that be worth?

You notice how it's price scales differently vs regular horses.

This is due to its quality increasing. That same Aserai horse, being worth 2k max, is now worth 200k. This is due to it is one of its kind, unique, and like the best sword made by the best craftsman, it is unable to be found anywhere except by that one who trained it or made it

Crafting goods are worth severely higher prices due to their quality, worth, and rarity.

Just like diamond rings in real life will never be cheap, a Sword or bow of the highest quality will never be worth less than an insane amount of gold

To add, as has been stated, this is not to say crafted weapons should hit the ceiling, but that the 78k for the best weapon in the game, whilst not making sense with a bow being worth 200k, was accepted at the time, and is now ridiculously scaled
 

ashize9879

Recruit
What I said before about people ranting against Smithing was true

There are those I've found with legitimate points, being the issue of starting Smithing

Outside of that I haven't heard a legitimate point. Only anger that other activities such as fighting in a ring, or traveling the world trading common goods is supposed to equivalate to Smithed goods when level is maxed out.

A damascus steel sword (the highest quality sword) in real life, is...phew...not cheap

It is not the same as buying the same goods you mention, or fighting in a ring. They are just measured by two different standards. That has been the same for over 2000 years in real life
 

ashize9879

Recruit
So...I will change my point on one thing, as I get it now, was more rallying against the issue then seeing what was said earlier in the comments.

Smithing being like a printing press for money.

Early on in the game, we can understand this.

Later on in the game at maximum Smithing, I will say that yes, Smithing is a money printing press. But why is this?

This is due to the fact that like any player who pursues crafting in a game, because they learn it will allow them to make the best weapons and armor, and insane profits, they know that when they get to the higher levels they now can continually craft things that will be worth lots and lots of money. It gets better, due to you being able to make as many as you want with time, you begin to stockpile, and you now have achieved as many as you need for your money needs

So yes, Smithing is a printing press for money at higher levels, and rightfully so. The best craftsman in the world generally has no want for money due to the fact that they know people want the best, and they will get insane profits for them

It scales realistically, there's no issue there, either in real life or in game. Just look at games such as runescape, as it's a good example for the topic. You spend insane amount of time getting your mining and smithing level up, and you soon find...ooh, now I can make millions

Yep...because those that know what gets you profit will eventually get it

Fable also is a good example. If you know how to manage your money, and buy houses and stores in time, you learn that you begin to rake in the profits. You learn how the economy works. You are no longer out of pocket. You are using money from income you gain from your investments.

Ironically, that's business in a nutshell.

But yeah, those that know economics in a game, will know where the profits at, and...as money and relations makes the world go round, Smithing combined with charm and trade = you can control the world

You can do what you want with that knowledge in this game, use it on your enemies or allies. Use it to become a merchant lord and run your kingdom on your own profits.

It's all realistic. Has been since the beginning of time.
 

Ask

Sergeant
Okay clearly you don't really care about game balance as long as it's realistic. Is it realistic to trade 30 high quality swords for a town + all their bound villages?
 

ashize9879

Recruit
Okay clearly you don't really care about game balance as long as it's realistic. Is it realistic to trade 30 high quality swords for a town + all their bound villages?
Dude...I just explained all of that. The game focuses a lot on realism, it's been pointed out and praised by people such as Shadiversity that hugely loves realism, so...thats not a problem

And game balance. The game is set up in a realistic manner. What you are asking for, and getting mad at, is for Smithing goods to cost the same as trade goods.

Which as we established, makes no sense.

There's a difference between game balance, let's say...an arrow does 800 damage and a javelin does 400, thatd be a game balance issue.

There are issues like that that can be addressed as balance issues.

However, Smithing being priced what it should be vs trade goods, is not a balance issue. It's realistically done and now it's really not in the current update. It wasn't realistic in the updates before that brought it down to a max of 78k for a two handed Sword, but it works with the scaling of the game, and balancing as you say. So me and others let it slide

What you are saying will not balance the game. It will make it a game that doesn't make sense.

A smithed good we've established should cost top dollar for being of the highest quality. If we drop that to the cost of an Aserai Horse at 2k, we've destroyed the realism.

That's not a good game, that's where the lack of realism hurts the game and game makers. Lack of realism hurts any story or game or movie ever made.

Game balance should be established based on what would be realistic for the game. Realism often is the scale for which game balance is established

Just as the javelin being lower damage then the arrow would be a game balance issue, it's also a realism issue. It doesn't work for the same exact problem

What you are saying and rallying against is not a game balance issue, it's you getting mad because the game doesn't scale or feel right to you because a Smithing good is priced higher than trading goods
 

ashize9879

Recruit
Okay clearly you don't really care about game balance as long as it's realistic. Is it realistic to trade 30 high quality swords for a town + all their bound villages?
And yes, in ages past goods such as pigs, sheep, or goods based on price were exchanged for wives, slaves, and likely even Towns

So...no, I have no problem with that

The swords you are speaking, recently being prices at 78k a piece, although the ones I sold being about 75k, it's hard to get perfect 78k: to a lord these swords are worth a lot, so they will accept these as payment, as they realize they can sell them for high profit, or keep them for use. They recognize their worth. Thus they'd accept these as payment as it's it's same as giving them gold. This is why they also accept horses and other goods as payment.

The Lord is getting the same payment either in goods or in gold, as it all equals gold. It's all in the recognizing of what you are receiving.

Thus, there is no problem there.

Plus, bound villages and land come with castles and towns, so...yes, buying a Town or castle and surrounding land follows the same
 

ashize9879

Recruit
That's not the point here, your dodging the points, and not adding anything of substance to this conversation other than to try and hit me on something.

I think your issue is on you want to be able to make money that's equivalent to Smithing

Right now, how to do that is in getting your Steward skill up to have more troops in your army, your clan tier up to 6, and there's a Kingdom perk, I can't remember the name of it that will get you I think 40 more troops. This will allow you to have an army with right now I'm up to 338 troops, that will allow you to ferry goods in massive amounts with weight limit about 20,000

Second is in caravans and workshops. I haven't figured out how to get Caravans to really net the profit continuously yet as war is continuous and caravans are targeted very very frequently, so you have to likely follow them around to keep people off them. Workshops on the other hand, I havent figured out how to level them up, but they net about 250 per day at max usually, so x7 we get 1,750

Next using the Roguery stat we get advances to betting which we can use towards Arena battles which...combined with selling the equipment gained, you can eventually maybe net 10k per Arena

Then you have the obvious which is looting from fighting enemies can net upwards of 200k

If you follow the Caravan around I'm betting that can be combined with Arena battles. Although...with wars on, it gets harder as they enter enemy territory and...well...

Yeah, right now the only way to net the most profit is by battles, Arena, workshops and caravans, and raising your trade skill

Right now I'd say what you are looking for is either more methods to make money outside of Smithing or finding ways that gain you profit within the ways currently.

I currently use fiefs I won in battle, being Towns right now to keep my costs down to about 2k or less per day, including with larger garrisons. Which is insane! That's with me not even touching my Smithing swords as much.

With all the goods I net from winning battles it's not hard for me to still take a huge chunk out of a towns profit if I want to. This is why I generally will target enemy towns to take their food and profits.

I dont use trade to buy towns or castles. I use influence, as well as relations and lots and lots of troops

You can claim a castle from an enemy by having good relations with them and bringing them to your side while at war.

You can also claim either a castle or town potentially by using your influence to steal a fief from a clan member that's next to your territory of towns or castles

So...I can play with or without Smithing. It doesn't bother me. My early playstyle is attacking enemies which gives me enough profit to live on, and ferrying grain in massive quantities back and forth

So...I know a little bit about speed penalties. I overcome them
 
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