Smithing needs to be overhauled

Should smithing be overhauled


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PGtips2012

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I've seen many people complain about the current system and I have to say I agree with them. Unlocking parts individually is really frustrating, especially when you consider the randomness and the fact that the stamina mechanic forces you to click through a bunch of menus to rest just so you can come back to smith a bit more and unlock some more random stuff. Actually getting the parts you want is a nightmare and the only way is to brute force it.
Also this system makes it possible for a rookie smith to unlock a really high tier part like its some lottery, and because crafted weapon prices are so broken this essentially bypasses a large portion of the game as you can just cash out and make a tonne of money.

The whole system should be redone so that you gain access to tiers as you level up. This will give some variety in parts early on and make it so you have a more structured and linear progression, which is infinitely more rewarding than lootbox smithing.
 
Yeah I've played probably around 250 hours and have barely tried using this feature as it becomes tedious so quickly. Maybe it's rewarding if you invest time into it, idk
 
The crafting system has great potential however not complete obviously. Also there should be armor crafting too.
 
I like the concept and understand your points. To be fair, I like crafting my own weapon. I don't think I will spend as much time as some doing smithing. Then again, getting gold and other things to sell makes a lot of money especially after your perk selections.

I just made a 2h sword with 112 reach and it does around 90 dmg swing, and 41 pierce. Pretty cool.
 
I've really enjoyed the smithing, it's the first time I've really tried it. I would agree that being able to focus what you unlock would be nice though.

I think just having unlocks come related to the item you are smelting/crafting, would solve 90% of the unlock issues. It would still be fairly random, which i don't hate, but at the same time, you could focus on 2 handed axes, or 1 handed swords, and by smelting/forging only those, you'd be able to easily unlock good pieces well.
 
I'm fine with random part discovery. I'm not happy with smithing stamina, which is plain bad mechanic.
 
The stamina thing is annoying for sure but I understand why they put it in, I think. The problem is a lack of balance which should be handled some other way. However, I still like smithing and can put up with it as is if that's how it's going to be. In fact, my whole character start is dependent on smithing. I've found a good way to usually get early unlocks fast and if good ones don't come, I restart.
 
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I don't like how I feel like I'm missing out when I play a 2H character without smithing; there is a clear lack of 2H weapons in the economy (until later), and they are always way overpriced.

Since it's relevant, and I haven't seen anyone else post similar thoughts, I'll copy and paste my post from another smithing thread:


I like the idea of being able to design and acquire customized gear, but the implementation is very out of place.

1. I agree with the idea that realistically, if someone is in the role of leading a clan, kingdom, or army, they wouldn't be spending much time if at all blacksmithing. That is a trade skill. I do like the idea of diverse gameplay that includes more aspects of the culture and lifestyle of what our character may be experiencing in this world. To that end, implementing trade skills can be successful. (edit: Sure the game is called "Bannerlord," but obviously people want to do more than just run a fiefdom.) But what is so special about blacksmithing that my character would be doing that, but not hunting or fishing? Medieval royalty literally had whole forests restricted for their private use, but there is very little player interaction with the natural world in Bannerlord. Sure, blacksmithing specifically serves the purpose of giving the player more character customization and attempts doing so in an immersive way, but as others have already suggested, it would be way more immersive to place an order with a blacksmith NPC with options specific to the culture of the settlement and Tiers levels capped at the level of the local blacksmith.

2. My view on stamina is kind of a moot point because really I'd prefer the change mentioned above, but if we absolutely must stick with blacksmithing as a player skill, the devs should replace the stamina system with what happened with taxing cities in Warband: when you initiate the action, time should automatically advance to simulate that action taking time to accomplish; the time needed to finish the task should be viewable before initiating. This is really what stamina is supposed to simulate right? Because players shouldn't be able to bust out multiple armories worth of equipment overnight, sure yeah. But right now it feels backwards. Rather than taking time to accomplish, we have take time to recover. What? It doesn't make sense. Maybe it would if there was a larger stamina system in the game, affecting our travel speed, spent in battles, gained back better with food diversity, etc. Since that larger system doesn't exist, blacksmithing currently plays as being some kind of hobby of guilty pleasure the player can do if they want to make a "custom" weapon with components of random cultures the character had no way of experiencing and thus learning. I do like the idea of learning components only after smelting a crafted weapon. (edit: in order of what makes the most sense, after smelting a weapon, the player should have a chance of either learning a component that weapon utilizes, a related component from the same culture as the smelted weapon, a related component from the same culture of the town the player is smithing in, or a related component of the same weapon type. No matter what, giving low level smiths the ability to unlock high level parts is obviously broken and leads to snowballing of the skill, and its associated revenue, very quickly.)

3. The scale sliders on weapon components do NOT coincide with believable (realistic-ish) changes to the stats. For example, a larger, heavier pommel should not increase swing damage. The real purpose behind a hefty pommel is to bring the balance of the weapon away from the tip of the blade which allows for easier manuevuring of the point: a bigger, heavier pommel allows easier, more precise stabbing. Also, because the balance of the weapon is shifted away from the tip, swing is actually less, even though the overall weapon weight is heavier. Neither of these, which are the main function of a heavy pommel, are reflected in sliding the scale in the game. Another example of wtf stat changes is handle size: a larger handle size allows the hands to be spread more apart on (edit: a 2H) weapon, creating a more efficient lever action and thus faster swing speed. But sliding scale up on the handle decreases the swing speed. But of course, that's because no matter what, the character will be swinging that sword like a baseball bat...
 
But what is so special about blacksmithing that my character would be doing that, but not hunting or fishing? Medieval royalty literally had whole forests restricted for their private use, but there is very little player interaction with the natural world in Bannerlord.
Come to think of it, hunting expeditions could be pretty fun in this game. Tracking bears or boar through forests to improve Scouting and Ranged skills etc.
 
I've played 400+ hrs and have invested a lot of time into smithing over the various editions of this game. Because price mechanics are somehow linked to smithing skill, javelin and 2H sword production nets the biggest increase in smithing and the best cash-out. This is dumb. I like 2H swords. I like javelins. But investing time into maces, axes, 1H swords, polearms, etc., is a complete waste of time for the limited stamina available.

Price mechanics is just wonky right now. And the fact that is somehow tied to smithing is also not good. I saw a suggestion earlier to maybe tie 'unlocked parts' with tiers. I think this is also a bit silly. It would make sense if you find a steel eastern sabre and take the time to smelt it, you should have a chance to learn the parts associated. Right now, that's not what happens. What happens is I smelt a sword and MAYBE learn a new part completely unrelated.

It seems like the solution is pretty straight-forward:
1. Associate parts of a weapon with the parts you can learn to unlock. Smelt a lot of maces? Learn a lot about maces. Smelt a lot of swords? Learn a lot about swords. Seems commonsense.
2. Divorce smithing skill mechanic from prices (just because something is more valuable doesn't mean you magically learn more)
3. For the love of god, make maces useful in some meaningful capacity because right now they're a complete waste of time and they really shouldn't be. (My favorite weapon from MB:WB was the two handed heavy morning star -- a complete waste of resources in MB:BL)
4. Stamina should regenerate inside and outside of cities. Mods have been fixing this issue since 1.0.0.
(5.) Armor should be craftable (I understand this would probably take a lot of dev work and so I understand if it never makes it into final game edition)
(6.) Bows/crossbows/missiles should be craftable.
(7.) Prices for finished goods should be based upon craftsmanship quality of weapon - not just the class of weapon.
 
Come to think of it, hunting expeditions could be pretty fun in this game. Tracking bears or boar through forests to improve Scouting and Ranged skills etc.
Most definitely. Viking Conquest even had an extremely rudimentary form of hunting. C'mon Bannerlord, you can easily do better than that!

Hunting would be a way to:
- improve combat skills, mainly ranged, but also hand to hand, especially against animals that would charge the player (boars)
- obtain food without spending money, even make money from selling meat/hides
- increase roguery skill (through poaching)
- increase relations with a lord if you go on a hunt with them, either inviting them on a hunt in your own lands or aiding their own hunt they invite you to (requires some good relation with them already and requires a successful outcome)
- wound or kill lords in a hunting accident; this shouldn't outright have negative consequences, but rely on player's rogue ability to get away with it
- RP

Personally, one of the largest issues with the smithing skill is that it feels out of place given the scope of the game. Rather than remove it, I'd prefer it get tweaked alongside adding other trade skills that add/improve gameplay. Hunting is an easy example of a comparable addition that won't necessarily need it's own skill in the character sheet.

Back to strictly smithing, I think one easy fix is to adjust the prices of all weapons to be something more realistic. Not like IRL realistic, just make sense gameplay wise. How does it make sense that I can either pay the recruitment cost and wages for an army capable of besieging a settlement, or buy one non-bejewelled weapon of historical unimportance? If it was a ruby encrusted sword of noble lineage, sure I could shrug my shoulders and believe that, but that's not the case. Weapons and armor are horribly overpriced as a whole, especially when considering the cost of upgrading troops, and I think that is a contributor to the insane prices player-made weapons can achieve.

One thing I also forgot to mention about smithing is that I hate how later on you'll find player-made items for sale in towns and as prizes in tournaments. It's not clear to me if those are the actual items I created, or if the weapons are just added to a discrete list of potentially spawned items. I would imagine the latter, and I don't like that. It doesn't make sense.
 
One thing I also forgot to mention about smithing is that I hate how later on you'll find player-made items for sale in towns and as prizes in tournaments. It's not clear to me if those are the actual items I created, or if the weapons are just added to a discrete list of potentially spawned items. I would imagine the latter, and I don't like that. It doesn't make sense.

I spend a lot of time smithing in this game and usually early on, I'll build crappy 2H swords to build my smithing skill (because that and javelins are the only way to actually increase smithing). These swords are complete trash but they sell for reasonable amounts of money. And in 100% of the cases, I will see them (over the course of my save) get shuffled around to different cities -- some that I haven't even visited. I find it hilarious and kind of like that gameplay feature. It is annoying having to sell my own sword a second time after winning it in a tournament -- but the tournament mechanics are ****ing ludicrous right now and that's a topic for a different thread.
 
I don't like the completely random way that parts unlock right now.

I think a good alternative is to have smelted / crafted items unlock parts of similar culture. Every weapon able to be smithed is assigned a culture already (currently based on where you smithed it), and this can be fleshed out and made use of.
 
also can we get a way to refine without having to press 1000 times, a mouse can only live for so long and new mouse just doesnt last as long as they used but they cost way more, so anything that will prolong my mouse buttons life will greatly be appreciated.
 
I would like it if we was able to make our own armour that we only have it in our faction or Kingdom.Maybe to much of a ask though but i can hope lol
 
also can we get a way to refine without having to press 1000 times, a mouse can only live for so long and new mouse just doesnt last as long as they used but they cost way more, so anything that will prolong my mouse buttons life will greatly be appreciated.

If the devs could implement this simple mod to the game, it'd be soooooo much better. UI is not getting much love from the devs right now, it's all about balancing.

 
Yeah I've played probably around 250 hours and have barely tried using this feature as it becomes tedious so quickly. Maybe it's rewarding if you invest time into it, idk
It's not much of a grind. Smithing is the only skill I know of where you can get 10+ points from one skill check, even when your skill is in the 200's.

Early on, you spend a lot more time refining, but the skill gain is fast. Once you get to about 40-50 skill, you can build about 3 weapons for all your stamina, and gain 5+ skill points for each one.

Yes, if you're trying to max your skill all in one trip to town, it would be tedious. But if you rest in town every time you get hurt and do your 3 weapon builds every time, your smithing skill will still rise faster than any other skill.
 
It's not much of a grind. Smithing is the only skill I know of where you can get 10+ points from one skill check, even when your skill is in the 200's.

Early on, you spend a lot more time refining, but the skill gain is fast. Once you get to about 40-50 skill, you can build about 3 weapons for all your stamina, and gain 5+ skill points for each one.

Yes, if you're trying to max your skill all in one trip to town, it would be tedious. But if you rest in town every time you get hurt and do your 3 weapon builds every time, your smithing skill will still rise faster than any other skill.

miGno


I agree. Smithing is actually one of the easiest skills to level up. It only becomes grindy if you're deliberately trying to unlock every weapon part in the game.
On the other hand, you don't even need to level up smithing as you can craft anything in the game as soon as you unlock them, regardless of skill level (with a little penalty to weapon stats) which doesn't make much sense in my opinion.
 
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