Smithing breaks the game

[Dr-Shinobi]

I usually get around same price in the pool winning...like 1.5-2+k stuff i made but yeah can be annoying at times to ^^

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

Okay dude. It's so insane to me that you actually believe a Mount & Blade fan is unable to show self-control in cheating when we have had open mods and open cheat menu options since the first iteration of the series.

In VC if I wanted to respec I'd literally just export the char and open the file in notepad. You could type ANY numbers in there...

When the longbows on horses perk wasn't working in Bannerlord I'd just edit the spitems xml file to allow it...

If I'm going through a fresh playthrough on the hardest settings of course I'm going to try various in-game approaches to min-maxing the clan. I came across this naturally, as many comments have pointed out my finding is nothing new to the forums. How can it be both an intentional AND unintentional exploit?

How is the user supposed to know that you get infinite level ups through an ability that is already skill capped? Your argument is that it's totally fine and not broken? How about trash crafted items showing up in tournaments, barters, all over the place? Or staying in a town's inventory permanently? Like I said just say "early access" instead of making such absurd arguments. Obviously we're all in it for the long haul and patience has been part of the equation for years and years with this game...

I've never said early access, I said dont exploit a mechanic.

I agree that you can abuse it if you want to, but thats exactly what an exploit is. Its a mechanic that is being (ab)used in a way its not supposed to.

Why would the user get infinite level ups through a skill capped ability? How would the user even get to that level? I mean, without throwing up tons of javelins which then proceed to flood the market, just in order to gain a quick buck.
Spamming javelins isnt fun. It isnt productive. It isnt efficient and it isnt effective. If you want to make easy money without putting in too much effort, just open your console and cheat some money. Either way the result is the same.

But what I am trying to emphasize here is that the result is irrelevant. People shouldn't feel the need to throw up hundreds of javelins in order to get filthy rich. Because filthy rich isn't the point. Play the game. To throw in a appropriate saying: Enjoy the journey, not the destination.

BUT. If you do want to get filthy rich as soon and as easy as possible. Spam javelins. Cheat money. Do whatever the fcck you want.
But dont go on here and say its broken just because you broke it.

"it's not dummy proof" means "it's vulnerable to being messed up / broken by someone stupid."

 

[Worlok]

How is the user supposed to know that you get infinite level ups through an ability that is already skill capped? Your argument is that it's totally fine and not broken? ...

This game is broken. Don't search for any indepth gameplay consistency. It's only good for having few battles few times in the month. Everything else is just a mess.

 

[artemis_entreri]

I basically had no reason to try smithing until the perk updates where smithing and athletics added a combined +2 END and +2 CTR down the trees. Smithed items were also supposed to be bad until a few months ago. 350 hours clocked in but I don't spend much time on this forum. Did not see a recent thread about it.

Smithed items have been good since release. Not seeing why there is so much uproar. Smithing is fun and the weapons you can make are excellent.

If you want to be an elite gamer bro, play WoW or something.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

My recent playthrough I have powerleveled my main char, partner, brothers/sister, and all companions through smithing. I just made the same 2handed polearm over and over again as soon as I had the minimal resources to do so. If I needed money, I'd sell these, one of which easily cleans out an entire town's cash. I'd just go from town to town collecting best in slot gear for free for my char and all companions.

Even easier was making javelins. I power leveled my char's sister from level 1 to 20 and gave her best in slot gear within 1-2 hours. What points did she have invested? Zero. Just 1 END, 0 skill points, smithing hard capped at 5. She was still leveling up like crazy just spamming those javelins. That's when I realized I could do it on my main char and all the others who capped out smithing, pump out these javelins and get free levels, then rest everyone together in town to make it efficient.

Which led me to the conclusion... the gameplay is absolutely ruined by this. Free money, free leveling, without engaging in any of the intended, interesting game mechanics.

I'm sure it's something that can be fixed, particularly by changing the sell prices of crafted weapons and NOT advancing a char's level exp after they hard cap a skill. But at the moment this exploit is insanely strong.

Yes it's absurdly abusable and easy to level up.
It also stunts your skill growth rate by leveling you up so much, so more useful skills will be much slower to raise. You can workaround this by only using companions to smith though. Keep in mind the levels/FP don't do anything for you at all, it's all the skill ups and perks that can help and you get them VERY SLOWLY once you've level'd to 20+.
It also bloats the .sav and makes loading shops take longer and longer the more you craft.
I just ignore it because it doesn't give you anything useful , money is easy to get in more fun ways.

No smithed items are actually better but it depends on your skills

How can something be better then a Long Glaive that 1hk's everyone?!
I understand you could unlock the parts and just make a more powerful Long glaive like weapon, but how is that useful compared to the boring repetitive
smithing for so much irl time and killing your skill gain, I know almost everyone uses MC even though they don't have to.

If I'm going through a fresh playthrough on the hardest settings of course I'm going to try various in-game approaches to min-maxing the clan.

Yes it's all about the art of min/max for me too. Smithing has no role for me because at the end of day it's just money and there's no real use for it that can compensate for doing more productive things to make money, things that get you skills and fiefs and troops in the process.

This is one thing I can't understand and it really frustrates me to no end. I mean even if I scrap a weapon instead of selling it, it will show up as a prize in tournaments later on, and if you make enough over time they will flood the pool of prizes.

Me too. I could easily ignore selling items and only use companions to smith, but this is unacceptable to me and not worth the convenience of making a slightly longer sword or 2hander.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Don't take what I'm saying as overly personally as this is more arguing the concepts themselves. Many people say this stuff not just you.
[/QUOTE]

I've never said early access, I said dont exploit a mechanic.

I agree that you can abuse it if you want to, but thats exactly what an exploit is. Its a mechanic that is being (ab)used in a way its not supposed to.

Smithing isn't an exploit because crafting weapons and selling them is EXACTLY what a player would expect smithing to be. The fact you can get so much money and level so fast is a **** up and needs to be fixed. IMO TW gets 30 days where we can say "X is an exploit" then if un-fixed it's just part of the game, that's how it works, it's a bad choice, it diminishes the player experience, buyer beware exct exct exct

Why would the user get infinite level ups through a skill capped ability? How would the user even get to that level?

This is true for all skills and is another huge **** up that needs to be fixed. IMO the bigger **** up is the global learning speed reduction per level up, but that's another topic. You'll keep leveling from combat even if you are capped too. This means you can't just "not invest FP" and stop from leveling via combat to preserve you skill learning rate for other slower skills. It's really bad and undermines the entire point of a char system where you choose what skills you want to learn most and such.

If you want to make easy money without putting in too much effort, just open your console and cheat some money. Either way the result is the same.

For many players there is a big distinction between what the game lets you "DO" and what you can do via a cheat menu or mods.
When the game lets you do it, it's not cheating. Doing things the game lets you to take an advantage or progress faster usually feels good in a game, where as using cheats to produce the same effect doesn't to many people. Why even play the game, just imagine you're the king of all calradia. That's the same too.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

This game is broken. Don't search for any indepth gameplay consistency. It's only good for having few battles few times in the month. Everything else is just a mess.

Speak for yourself...Ive been enjoying the **** out of my 1.3k hours and im not even tired yet xD Even if im aware that its only like half finished with flawns here and there..... And im an very critical and picky gamer especially during these times with quantity **** spitting out every year as well as they are spitting on past heavy titles thinking they are gonna be their cows for desperate gamers to get milk from

AnandaShanti
Ps. The long Glaive is an class for itself and dont count in for the actual game mechanic but only for Khuzaits who still learn the game and to fight as they need that little bit of an extra upper hand if his/her faction cant manage to take over Calradia

 

[PSD]

and gave her best in slot gear

peace door ball.

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

Smithing isn't an exploit because crafting weapons and selling them is EXACTLY what a player would expect smithing to be. The fact you can get so much money and level so fast is a **** up and needs to be fixed. IMO TW gets 30 days where we can say "X is an exploit" then if un-fixed it's just part of the game, that's how it works, it's a bad choice, it diminishes the player experience, buyer beware exct exct exct

You’re right, you’ve changed my point of view and theres nothing more for me but to agree.

TWs negligence has made the bug a feature. My earlier “just dont abuse it” only goes so far when its a temporary bug, recognized by dev’s and one the to-do list to fix. But so far TW hasnt shown any inclination to do so.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

nobody got my sarcastic Khuz joke :/ thought it was great xD well best part that you can laugh at yourself at times to ^^

 

[Worlok]

Speak for yourself...Ive been enjoying the **** out of my 1.3k hours and im not even tired yet xD Even if im aware that its only like half finished with flawns here and there..... And im an very critical and picky gamer especially during these times with quantity **** spitting out every year as well as they are spitting on past heavy titles thinking they are gonna be their cows for desperate gamers to get milk from

AnandaShanti
Ps. The long Glaive is an class for itself and dont count in for the actual game mechanic but only for Khuzaits who still learn the game and to fight as they need that little bit of an extra upper hand if his/her faction cant manage to take over Calradia

Of course I do speak for myself. That's how I feel you are free to disagree. Congrats to your 1.3k hours.

 

[babelfisch]

First, I remember exploiting in TES. In Morrowind I used to jump the stairs at the Temple of Vivec up and down until I maxed out my Acrobatic skill. In Skyrim I probably crafted a few hundred leather helmets. So I would say that many open world games have potential exploits.
That said, if it can be fixed and it results in better gameplay I am all for it. This is one of the occasions where we should be happy that the game is still in EA...

 

[Lord Irontoe]

Spamming javelins isnt fun. It isnt productive. It isnt efficient and it isnt effective. If you want to make easy money without putting in too much effort, just open your console and cheat some money. Either way the result is the same.

But what I am trying to emphasize here is that the result is irrelevant. People shouldn't feel the need to throw up hundreds of javelins in order to get filthy rich. Because filthy rich isn't the point. Play the game. To throw in a appropriate saying: Enjoy the journey, not the destination.

Spamming tons and tons of Javelins isn't just about money. Its sort of built into the design of the system because of how the random unlocks work. If you want to unlock specific components, you're gonna need to forge a metric crapton of expensive items, and javelins are just the most efficient way to do it. But by the time you get your coveted component, the damage is done and now your crafted javs are crowding out all the shops in Calradia.

 

[Marajah]

How can something be better then a Long Glaive that 1hk's everyone?!
I understand you could unlock the parts and just make a more powerful Long glaive like weapon, but how is that useful compared to the boring repetitive
smithing for so much irl time and killing your skill gain, I know almost everyone uses MC even though they don't have to.

A long glaive that 1hk's ko everyone AND you can couch it lol

Yeah. They gotta fix smithing. Last times I played I still did smithing with companions and smelted everything later, to avoid bloating shops while getting nice multi-purpose customizable weapons. But we shouldn't be actively avoiding using smithing so it doesn't botch growth or bloat shops and tournaments with stuff. They gotta fix the whole economy and access to top tier gear. It needs a rehaul and it will probably be broken when they rework it, so the sooner the better

 

[StewVader]

The smithy guy is on vacation.

LOL. Love it Steve! Keep fighting the good fight brother.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

First, I remember exploiting in TES. In Morrowind I used to jump the stairs at the Temple of Vivec up and down until I maxed out my Acrobatic skill. In Skyrim I probably crafted a few hundred leather helmets. So I would say that many open world games have potential exploits.
That said, if it can be fixed and it results in better gameplay I am all for it. This is one of the occasions where we should be happy that the game is still in EA...

Is this that new fangled internet sarcasm? Both your examples are just grinding a skill as intended. I think in Skyrim the issue was that it just didn't feel good to grind hundreds of leather bracers to be able to make the best armor possible.... but that was how you got the best armor possible, not quest or challenges, so it felt kinda crappy. More exploity examples would be the invisible NPC chests you can loot and casting soul trap on dead bodies for skill up..... you didn't trap a soul why you get skill? A close one in BL would be skill up from friendly fire, but even that makes more sense then soul trap because you actually are shooting a guy with a bow n arrow. Getting hitched and taking the gear in BL is like getting about 20 invisible chests Will BL change this... probly... maybe not. ES def had lots of time to fix the chests and soul trap and just didn't.

A long glaive that 1hk's ko everyone AND you can couch it lol

Couch, what's that? HORIZONTAL SWING FOR LIFE!

nobody got my sarcastic Khuz joke :/ thought it was great xD well best part that you can laugh at yourself at times to ^^

You're racist against Khuzaits, why is that funny? Why don't you make a joke about Rhomphai or Pole sword? Oh yeah, cuz those factions don't dumpster dump you in your meme playthroughs and get you all salty. ???

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

You're racist against Khuzaits, why is that funny? Why don't you make a joke about Rhomphai or Pole sword? Oh yeah, cuz those factions don't dumpster dump you in your meme playthroughs and get you all salty. ???

Hey ive giveth a go against Vladians to ya know, since their King now decided to marry a sheep

 

[noamchomsky]

My recent playthrough I have powerleveled my main char....

TL;DR "Please make the game harder for everyone because I chose to exploit certain mechanics."

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

TL;DR "Please make the game harder for everyone because I chose to exploit certain mechanics."

That was also my first reaction.

But its a problem TW has to fix.

They know their playerbase so they should know they have to idiot proof every mechanic. If it isnt dummy proofed it will get exploited. So dont throw shade at the people repeatedly exploiting a mechanic and then complaining about it. TW should prevent it.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I've never said early access, I said dont exploit a mechanic.

I agree that you can abuse it if you want to, but thats exactly what an exploit is. Its a mechanic that is being (ab)used in a way its not supposed to.

Exploits can be fun or even enhance the game, for example the high level play of most platformers will involve exploits of some kind. Meanwhile some "intended" mechanics can be worse than the exploits. Whether the developers intended it or not is kind of irrelevant.

It's also not feasible to tell someone to ignore the smithing because the moment there is an easy way to do something that the rest of the game makes you wade through dogcrap to get, the entire experience is devalued. If the minute to minute gameplay was better this wouldn't be much of a problem, but as it is the javelin sales are the easiest way to get to the vassal section of the game.