Slow down battles to make them feel epic and realistic

Hrulj

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I am genuinely sad I haven't recorded it, it was simply put amazing. A 500 vs 500 battle, both sides were hesitant and rather than charge all out kept to their side of the battlefields. Skirmishes broke out in numerous places, 20-30 units fighting each other while the rest of the army stood back. With the river in the map lenghtwise any movement was slow and archers reaped a heavy toll. Sturgian Brigands circled around Vlandians and hit them on the sides, arches were spread out ahead and skirmishing. The river had a large battle of infantry vs infantry but then both commanders pulled back to reorganize. I led the right flank and managed to slip crossbowmen on top of the riverbank while the fight was going on but the AI countered it with a cavalry charge, which I had to countercharge with my own cav, sacrificing them in the process to allow the crossbowmen to retreat. Just watching them pull back while being chased and harrased as I charged in between them and the pursuers to break them up felt incredible. At almost 11 minutes it was also one of the longest non siege battles I had up to date.

With said experience I'd suggest to make AI more hesitant to just charge all out. Keep back and let the battle proceed in phases rather than be decided by a single clash and charge right down the middle.

 
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cabjay

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It really really would be great having armies planning tactics to charge and waiting for a weak point to attack +1
 

Praefect

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I have seen AI sometimes take the high ground and hold back a bit which is nice.

It would also help if melee engagements would last longer and movement speed was reduced. Right now huge 500 v 500 infantry engagements last less than three minutes. Rant incoming:

The problem with that is that they've significantly reduced unit collision and friction entirely. And I think movement and attack speed is a bit too fast (faster than in Warband/beta)? I'm not entirely sure, but that's what it feels like.

You'll get situations like this: youtu.be/eub9OI4RIw8?t=35
In this example, the Empire get hammered because their formations are holding and aren't in a full charge, which means that each man in the frontline is getting attacked by 10 dudes clipping through each other, all performing overhead swings. This big engagement lasts around 20 seconds. As fast as you could move cavalry across the map and navigate the tactics menu.

So imagine maneuvering your cavalry, and before you even know it your entire heavy infantry line is gone because the AI made a full charge on them. A shield wall wouldn't matter because even that's too spaced out to account for the extremely small unit collision and the sardine can effect that you get when units get squashed in a full charge.

Now compare that to this gameplay from the beta where this kind of thing doesn't happen: youtu.be/pv2qb66PbUg?t=187.
Units have weight and collision. They can block bottlenecks without sliding around unrealistically. They aren't clipping through each other. And the battles are slower, more methodical and tactical. The length of the engagement at the gate gives both yourself and the AI time to react and make realistic tactical decisions.

Compare that to a similar bottleneck situation in the current build: youtu.be/wcwrKBGFkzY?t=171 The engagement is shorter despite having way more troops involved than in the beta gameplay.
 

Morbo513

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+1. Right now all combat seem to heavily favour the side with numbers and forward momentum. Formations, cohesion, terrain seem to matter very little.
Pretty much all NPC troops seem faster on foot than the player by a significant margin too.
 
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Skyn0s

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+1
Completely agree, the tactics aren't that heavy in the combat, wich seems weird cause of the essence of the game.

- Longer battle can let the time to the player and AI to adjust their tactics like in real life. (each battle could be epic and important)
- Reinforced the parameters so like @Praefect explain, not just the charge count, but the collision and weight are effective also in the first contact, something like the tiredness could also be present, since bandit are charging all the way around, they have to be tired at some point.
- I have seen some moment when the AI is pretty interesting in their tactics (i was with the cavalry and they stay into the river to slow down my charges ...)
- Add maps with some particular landforms on them, in that way the tactics are forced and/or the turnaround have to be the initiative of the attacker or defender..., more impact of the landforms could be interesting couplede with the parameters above.
- Reinforced the particular tactics for each factions, cause at the moment each battle is more or less a duplicate of the precedent one and the important parameter is the number of soldier you bring to the battle.

At the moment it's great, but it can be much more interesting.
 

Acid91

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+1

In addition, it would be good to have the option to scale damage for everyone, rather than just You and your allies.
 

ABAlphaBeta

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This, and also add war chants, similar to this video for atmosphere.
-1. Ridiculous pandering to the "remove kebab" crowd

Battles weren't epic and slow, the AI actually acts really well. Numerical superiority and morale is considered and the fighting part of battles was genuinely quick. Multiple stages to a battle with resting could be interesting though
 

ABAlphaBeta

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I don't want to derail the post but... since when did war chants belong to the "remove kebab" crowd?

I'd love to see something like that in a future mod.
You know it's the incel crowd who wish they were in the Crusades to kill innocent muslims. You know it.
 

Praefect

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You know it's the incel crowd who wish they were in the Crusades to kill innocent muslims. You know it.
It's a video featuring a Norman/Anglo-themed army fighting a Gaelic-themed army.

With a Roman war chant from the Ben-Hur remake.

In a game made by Turkish people.

And war chants existed in historical armies across the world. I'm sure many would love to see them in this game to give their armies some personality.

I know the type of "remove kebab incel" crowd you're on about, but this is quite a reach bro. I'm not going to reply further otherwise this kind of stuff gets HEATED. You know it.
 

Moonweb

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I just posted a thread asking for armies to start further apart (and give us time to use the tools) a la TweakMB but then I found this thread and I believe this may be the better request.
+1
 

wherearewee

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+1

I hope TW pays attention tot his. The battles happen way too fast. Most of them should play out like OP's description. Small engagements are over so quickly I've begun to wonder why I even bother with them. I have time to maybe kill two or three looters before my blender boys smash into them and route the whole group.
 

rantbird

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+1. I was very surprised how quickly the battles were over. The AI also makes some very suicidal decisions, often charging in without any consideration to tactics.
 

k_mitt

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You could have the AI commander play differently during battles depending on their level/tactis/exp as well. Low level tiers just rush in crazily, while more exp soldiers and commanders take the battle more slowly pressing advantages regarding position, tactics, and environment.