Skirmisher

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Callum

Master Knight
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Please leave all feedback relating to the Aserai Skirmisher in this thread.
 
I think this one need a different clothing. Maybe more open.. Something that will make it selective. Archer and Beduin has similar stuffs.
 
This class is the perfect example of why the Skirmishers class in general just feels like an afterthought. Why should I take this class over the light infantry class when they can have a better gear selection(and armour usually) with throwing weapons? Or even Heavy infantry who get even better gear by default? Even the shock infantry classes can take throwing weapons and actually use their movement speed to skirmish properly.

I've noticed for a while now you have "Ranged Javelins" that are a temporary perk for most of these classes, do you have an idea of what to implement or are we stuck? My idea is an opposite of the Improved Armour perk, they can sacrifice Armour for some extra movement points. Call it "Increased Mobility". Current Skirmisher class has 13 armour and 78 movement speed. With Increased Mobility they could have -9 armour and +3 movement speed, letting them outpace most shock infantry and catch up to archers faster to throw things at them.

To make this class interesting:
-Give all skirmisher classes a large shield by default for catching arrows
-Give all skirmisher classes an "Increased Mobility" perk for catching archers and skirmishing from slower infantry
-Remove spears from all skirmisher classes, there is way too many spears in the game as it stands, and these guys can use throwing weapons to maim a horse anyways
-All skirmisher classes should have an extra "throwing weapon" perk choice
-All skirmisher classes should have an upgrade to their throwing weapons
-Access to a tougher shield through perks
-Choice between a mace or a sword for melee, but they should both be pretty bad.

There you now have the quintessential "anti-archer" class that the game lacks right now. Last thing to mention is that the price should probably be increased to 120/130.

EDIT: This post is a bit outdated, Skirmishers are now the strongest unit Aserai have infantry wise.
 
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This class is the perfect example of why the Skirmishers class in general just feels like an afterthought. Why should I take this class over the light infantry class when they can have a better gear selection(and armour usually) with throwing weapons? Or even Heavy infantry who get even better gear by default? Even the shock infantry classes can take throwing weapons and actually use their movement speed to skirmish properly.

I've noticed for a while now you have "Ranged Javelins" that are a temporary perk for most of these classes, do you have an idea of what to implement or are we stuck? My idea is an opposite of the Improved Armour perk, they can sacrifice Armour for some extra movement points. Call it "Increased Mobility". Current Skirmisher class has 13 armour and 78 movement speed. With Increased Mobility they could have -9 armour and +3 movement speed, letting them outpace most shock infantry and catch up to archers faster to throw things at them.

To make this class interesting:
-Give all skirmisher classes a large shield by default for catching arrows
-Give all skirmisher classes an "Increased Mobility" perk for catching archers and skirmishing from slower infantry
-Remove spears from all skirmisher classes, there is way too many spears in the game as it stands, and these guys can use throwing weapons to maim a horse anyways
-All skirmisher classes should have an extra "throwing weapon" perk choice
-All skirmisher classes should have an upgrade to their throwing weapons
-Access to a tougher shield through perks
-Choice between a mace or a sword for melee, but they should both be pretty bad.

There you now have the quintessential "anti-archer" class that the game lacks right now. Last thing to mention is that the price should probably be increased to 120/130.
tbh i feel like the unit is in an okayish spot once they get rid of random pokes, losing 80% of ur hp to rng isnt rly that fun
 
Skirmishers would be pretty sweet and balanced if they were a bit faster and the javelins/jarids had the "bonus against shields" attribute. That's because they can't really disengage fast enough even from heavy infantry, and after a full volley of (6 per skirmisher) jarids, none of the enemies have their shields broken. Skirmishers should be a flanking force who can soften up even heavily shielded infantry by breaking their shields, but would get stomped by archers (range disadvantage) and cavalry.
 
Skirmishers would be pretty sweet and balanced if they were a bit faster and the javelins/jarids had the "bonus against shields" attribute. That's because they can't really disengage fast enough even from heavy infantry, and after a full volley of (6 per skirmisher) jarids, none of the enemies have their shields broken. Skirmishers should be a flanking force who can soften up even heavily shielded infantry by breaking their shields, but would get stomped by archers (range disadvantage) and cavalry.
They arent strong against inf they are supposed to be strong vs archers. To my knowledge they can outrun heavy inf. You can work with your archers to create crossfire on infantry aswell. The javs are good enough to defend cav off to some extent. The skirmisher is probably the only playable 100g cost unit.

Shields need to break faster from 1h attacks. Look noudelles thread: 60% -> 30% reduction of the blocking bonus
 
Jarid can kill with 3 simple hits in close combat, heavy infantry swords may take more. I think Jarids as melle weapon have to be nerfed , they are too OP in skirmish and i guess is not their scope.
 
Jarid can kill with 3 simple hits in close combat, heavy infantry swords may take more. I think Jarids as melle weapon have to be nerfed , they are too OP in skirmish and i guess is not their scope.

I mean, I have no issue with javelins being that lethal in melee as long as swords, axes and maces are MORE lethal.
 
This class should be reverted back to beta and should cost 120. The tribal warrior should instead be 100.
 
This class should be reverted back to beta and should cost 120. The tribal warrior should instead be 100.

Yeah yikes, my earlier post in this thread from the beta really didn't age well. This class has become the most powerful class in skirmish by far.
 
Captain Mode Perspective: Skirmisher units do not have enough Javelins, their Ai accuracy is not applied correctly, and they do not have enough unit count either considering how terrible they serve as both melee and ranged units in captain mode, they are not even helpful as a support unit because picking them is more detrimental to your team than it is helpful. Give skirmisher units better accuracy and ai behavior, more javelins to throw, more unit count, and better melee equipment.
 
Biggest mistake is to change their value to 120. Since then, I haven’t seen any one picks it. Why? Simply because there are better alternative with same price.

Aserai is a ligh infantry faction which focus on skirmishing and cav charge. When you raise the price of the Skirmisher unit you cripple one of the main functions of this faction.

Aserai used to perform alot better in siege and TDM when the majority of the army were Skirmishers rather than usless Warrior unit. Having a lot of javelins will cover the weakness of Aserai in close combat.
 
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When ever you pick the pike perk, i feels like the switching between weapons is wrong. When you fight with the pike and some infantry gets close to you, the next weapon you switch to isnt the sword but the Javelins instead which mean you have to switch twice to get to the sword to défend yourself. Sword should come after pike and javs after sword
 
Not too sure if I agree with the Jereed quiver getting reduced to 3. I think the quiver should still be 6, but remove the perk for the second quiver.

This will definitely require the reshuffling of the Skirmisher's perks, and I do not know what would replace the Jereed perk currently in the Perk 2 menu.

11/02/2021 edit:

Another reason why I think it's worth merging the "Better Javelins" and "Jereed" perk is that if you pick any of the other two weapons, you can still get 6 jereeds by throwing a jereed, dropping your Javelin (6/6) quiver and using the dropped quiver to replenish your jereed quiver, with the thrown jereed giving you a new quiver of jereeds. IMO, it'd be better to just keep the 6 jereeds consolidated to a single perk. Thinking on it now, maybe it'd be worth it to have a "Second Shield" perk as a Perk 2? If memory serves me correct, having two shields will give your back extra protection against arrows, but you can still get meleed from behind normally
 
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Because people like to dupe jereeds, maybe these changes would be welcome?

Perk 1
Better Javelins - Quiver Size increased to 5 (Yeah, it's an arbitrary number, but should have a slightly higher total damage than 6 regular javelins)

Perk 2
Jereed replaced with Improved Armor - Downgrades Desert Oval Shield to Round Shield, +9 Armor
 
Bumping this thread because I saw in another thread (don't remember which one) mentioning the notion of giving the Skirmisher a throwing spear. Rather than having the Skirmisher replace javelins entirely, how about the javelins instead be downgraded to throwing axes. Even if we are to look at a quiver of 6 throwing axes, you'd still see a significant loss in headshot damage and effectiveness against armored opponents.
 
Bumping this thread because I saw in another thread (don't remember which one) mentioning the notion of giving the Skirmisher a throwing spear. Rather than having the Skirmisher replace javelins entirely, how about the javelins instead be downgraded to throwing axes. Even if we are to look at a quiver of 6 throwing axes, you'd still see a significant loss in headshot damage and effectiveness against armored opponents.
Do you know that whole point of this class existing is historical throwing javeliner north-african unit gimmick? Giving throwing axe to Aserai skirmisher is like giving pilum to Vlandian knight...
 
Do you know that whole point of this class existing is historical throwing javeliner north-african unit gimmick? Giving throwing axe to Aserai skirmisher is like giving pilum to Vlandian knight...
You have a point, though if TaleWorlds plans on giving this class a throwing spear, it shouldn't come at the cost of not having javelins at all.

My point is that he should still have a quiver of throwing weapons that deal reduced headshot damage and are less effective against armored targets, while still being able to deal a respectable amount of damage on torso hits.
 
You have a point, though if TaleWorlds plans on giving this class a throwing spear, it shouldn't come at the cost of not having javelins at all.

My point is that he should still have a quiver of throwing weapons that deal reduced headshot damage and are less effective against armored targets, while still being able to deal a respectable amount of damage on torso hits.
Eh i do not think game needs more throwing spears (heavy) anyway, pilum should be unique thing for Empire and for Legioner only.
i miss beta times when this was a thing, and i dont love these ash throwing spears on battania and sturgia, pilum is like an counter answer vs cool 2hander weapons of barbarian nation(s)
 
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