But it is 100% true that a Palatine Guard with a Menav will bully the Menavlion Infantry in front of him. Having more armor and straight up the same weapon + a bow that forces the Menav inf to fight him instead of retreating.
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(Skirmish mode) The irrelevancy of 2 handed classes
- 主题发起人 Yukmouth++
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But it is 100% true that a Palatine Guard with a Menav will bully the Menavlion Infantry in front of him. Having more armor and straight up the same weapon + a bow that forces the Menav inf to fight him instead of retreating.
Zoonanay
Knight
Yeah, it's hard to argue a unit that costs 30 more gets triple to double armour and a bow with the same melee weapon as a perk that doesn't deny improved armour.
If you were going to go menavlion infantry, you'd be better served spawning twice on 300 gold as Palatine Guard and just dropping the bow and quiver for movement speed buff.
No, you'd be better off taking the menavlion infantry for 2 pilas and a movement speed buff.
Why have i never seen a single one do that in a clan battle ? Why are all the 2h classes completely out of the picture of they are good ?
Zoonanay
Knight
That's more due to Pila's being overpowered rather than the Menavlion class being worthwhile.
If you wanted to present a ranged threat you'd still be better served keeping the Palatine Guard's standard Recurve Bow at 56 pierce damage, in comparsion to the Pila's 113. Your increased fire rate, improved range and greater ammunition would be far more valueable throughout the course of the game considering both classes can kick combo their weapons for a headshot.
If you wanted to be an aggressive menavlion you'd still be better served Palatine Guard, with the 41 armour rather than the Menavlion's 16. The extra armour would better protect better against archers and projectiles, whilst also allowing more leniancy for glancing hits when outnumbered in combat, which is almost impossbile with a Menavlion class. Dropping a team mate a bow at the start of the round is massively underestimated, it is especially effective in conjunction with a heavy cavalry class.
The only exemption I can think of is the Longer Menavlion which due to its rather insane length and classes movement speed can be a powerful weapon, until it's countered by any ranged projectile, hence its conditional nature.
I cant fathom this logic. Giving the shock classes small shields would not make them overpowered at all. The two that it would ive already touched on. A unit becoming relevant does not make them overpowered. By this logic every single player wearing a leather jerkin in warband was overpowered compared to the people wearing heavy armor. That obviously was not the case. People need to accept that medium infantry being relevant is NOT a bad thing.
Have you ever seen people play 2h in competetive warband battles?
One thing you left out in pros is that the shock troopers have an additional 10 health, other than that, I agree. They already nerfed Berserker armor from 15 to 6 in 1.3. I have a feeling this was based on Captain mode. I think it might be too much to try to balance each class for multiple different game modes. Of course captain has troop count, but as you said, these shock troopers have little viability in Skirmish. I think it would make sense to say decrease projectile damage by 15% to shock troopers in skirmish, other modes, maybe not so much. Or give them say 125 hp, or extra throwing weapons.
In Sturgia you can have the basic warrior with armor, good speed, and a 2h axe for 100. It just makes almost no sense to use the Berserker. The Berserker should probably have the armor upgrade and the great axe by default.
There's a 2h perk in single player that is supposed to allow you to block projectiles by blocking left to right or vise versa. This would be a great perk for the shock troopers (does this perk work yet in sp?). You could make projectiles or any attack under 30 damage unable to flinch the shock troopers. You could give them a "last stand" perk to where any killing blow reduces them to 1 hp, or any combination of the above or something else.
Anyways i'm not sure what the solution is, there's tons of ways you could do it, but these are by far my favorite classes to play but it's simply not viable in skirmish.
I like the idea of the shock trooper being a class that's high risk high reward. Unfortunately they simply have no answer to the swarms of projectiles they will face in skirmish, not to mention the couched lance (many 2 weapons can't even thrust so chambering a couched lance is out the window, as if that is feasible to begin with).
In Sturgia you can have the basic warrior with armor, good speed, and a 2h axe for 100. It just makes almost no sense to use the Berserker. The Berserker should probably have the armor upgrade and the great axe by default.
There's a 2h perk in single player that is supposed to allow you to block projectiles by blocking left to right or vise versa. This would be a great perk for the shock troopers (does this perk work yet in sp?). You could make projectiles or any attack under 30 damage unable to flinch the shock troopers. You could give them a "last stand" perk to where any killing blow reduces them to 1 hp, or any combination of the above or something else.
Anyways i'm not sure what the solution is, there's tons of ways you could do it, but these are by far my favorite classes to play but it's simply not viable in skirmish.
I like the idea of the shock trooper being a class that's high risk high reward. Unfortunately they simply have no answer to the swarms of projectiles they will face in skirmish, not to mention the couched lance (many 2 weapons can't even thrust so chambering a couched lance is out the window, as if that is feasible to begin with).
最后编辑:
Yeah I agree, I like that solution... but might make them OP in Captain mode for example. Haven't played Captain in a long time, I don't know how good the shock troopers are in that mode.
Yeah might throw captain mode off, they really need to just separate the troop balance between skirm and captain otherwise I feel like it makes it too hard to balance for both. They also need to change the way movement works so two handers can't just run in circles backwards and keep outreaching. It's smart to use reach to your advantage but being able to do it on a whim and them being alot faster than other inf units makes it unfun and it is not a hard thing to do.
Picking up a shield and using it on the twohanded classes feels really nice. The speed/armor combination they have is the closest to feeling "right" that swobo has ever been in bannerlord for me.
Could be that when we run out of combat we slowly accelerate while running until getting max speed. Once we are in combat, Swinging or getting attacked, we lose the speed. That way people cant just run away from fights but the flanking remains
Revverie
Every class should have the option to wear a shield. Its the most important piece of equipment in competitive multiplayer.
And they can always make said shield super easy to break once the melee combat starts. 3 melee hits, as long as they dont break from arrows.
The shields that they give the cav classes would be perfect
@Yukmouth++
The reason is fairly simple. Clans are highly coordinated and any 2h (without shield) will be focussed down by archers and cav (and infantry throwing weapons) before the fight even starts. This is the main reason why people don't play 2h in clan battles. I mean, it could work, but that is only when the skillgap between the two clans is insanely high so that it technically doesn't matter which class they take they still win.
The reason is fairly simple. Clans are highly coordinated and any 2h (without shield) will be focussed down by archers and cav (and infantry throwing weapons) before the fight even starts. This is the main reason why people don't play 2h in clan battles. I mean, it could work, but that is only when the skillgap between the two clans is insanely high so that it technically doesn't matter which class they take they still win.
