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StaceMcGate

Recruit
Thoughts and discussion on how skills are currently implemented and suggestions for future changes.
Gonna just focus on Stewardship, Roguery, and Trade; feel free to add in own thoughts if ya want.

Stewardship

This is the big one I think needs an overhaul. Currently feels redundant and conflicting with leadership.
As opposed to increase party size for its basic increase, I think it should reduce costs of maintaining parties.

Keeping the same method of learning, here is the inherent buff I think it should provide.

Skill Buff Suggestions
- Every 10 SPs, reduces wages of party/garrison by 0.85% (25.5% wage by 300)
- Every 10 SPs, reduces food consumption of party/garrison by 1% (30% by 300)
- Every 10 SPs, reduces cost of recruiting/upgrading troops by 1% (30%) by 300)

As for Perks, it needs more focus on maintaining settlement loyalty, which is a major issue in current version of game,
as well as increasing the effectiveness of towns/castle governed.

Perk Changes Suggestions

Stiff Upper Lip

(Quartermaster/Governor)
- Reduces food consumption while in army by 10%.
- Increases castle bound village production by 15%

Sweatshops (New Name)
(Quartermaster/Governor)
- Sharing food while in an army gives the party 1 morale.
- Workshops in governed town have 25% increased production.

Efficient Campaigner
(Party Leader/Quartermaster)
- During village raids you gain an additional food item for each one you loot.
- Troop wages are decreased by 10% while in an army.

Giving Hands
(Quartermaster/Governor)
- Discarded weapons can be donated to troops for experience.
- Every time a project is completed increase settlement loyalty by 5.

Logistician
(
Quartermaster/Governor)
- Increase party morale by 2 if more than 50% of foot infantry are mounted.
- Increase settlement loyalty by 0.5 while continuous projects are underway.

Sound Reserves
(Governor/Quartermaster)
- Having more than 30 days worth of food in inventory increases party morale by 4.
- Reduces food consumption of parties during siege by 15%.

Master of Planning
(Army Commander/Governor)
- Reduces food consumption of army by 15% while in a siege camp.
- Continuous projects are 20% more effective.

Master of Warcraft
(Party Leader/Governor)
- Reduces troop wage while in a siege camp by 10%
- Besieged settlement receives 1 loyalty per day.

Price of Loyalty
(Quartermaster/Governor)
- All forms of party morale loss decrease reduced by 3% per every 5 skill levels above 250.
- Reduce town food consumption, increases town's tax revenue, and increases town prosperity gain by 1.5% for every 5 skill levels above 250.

Roguery

The issues I see with roguery currently are
1) No party role for a companion with high roguery skills.
2) No clear indicators of how roguery impacts the success of actions requiring it.
3) It's base buff is only given to party leader.

So unless a specific party role is eventually given to Roguery (Spy/Bodyguard/Assassin/Etc)
The base buff of increasing party loot should be cumulative of all heroes who have it.

Skill Buff Suggestion
(Personal)
- Increases post-battle loot by 0.5% per every 5 skill levels (30% by 300).
- Increases chance of successful disguise by 1.4% per every 5 skill levels (82% by 300).
- Increase chance of evading capture after battle/events by 0.9% per every 5 skill levels (54% by 300).

Perk Change Suggestion

Two Faced

(Personal/Party Leader)
- 10% increased chance of successful disguise missions.
- Convert bandit prisoners without suffering a moral penalty.

Rogue Extraordinaire
(Personal)
- Increases loot amount by 1.5% for every 5 skill points over 250.


Trade

The trade economy is currently being overhauled hopefully, but for the time being its issue lies in how
difficult it is to level up.

So the focus here is in how to learn trade and what it provides.

How To Learn Suggestion
- Make profit from trading.
- Caravan leader.
- Owning profitable caravans/workshops.
- Caravans/Villagers entering governed settlement.

Skill Buff Suggestion
- Trade penalty reduction by 1% per every 5 skill points (60% by 300).
- Barter penalty reduction by 1% per every 5 skill points (60% by 300).
- Governed settlement tariff increased by 0.5% per every 5 skill points (30% by 300).


Thank you for your time if you made it this far.
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Roguery

The issues I see with roguery currently are
1) No party role for a companion with high roguery skills.
2) No clear indicators of how roguery impacts the success of actions requiring it.
3) It's base buff is only given to party leader.

So unless a specific party role is eventually given to Roguery (Spy/Bodyguard/Assassin/Etc)
The base buff of increasing party loot should be cumulative of all heroes who have it.
+1

1) Makes roguery companions mostly useless

It´s a big issue for me, every time I encounter a companion with high roguery I check his perks and notice that like all of them won´t help my party at all.

So if you want to make something out of roguery you need to take it yourself, it´s stupid in my opinion. And you also don´t want a party leader with high roquery because most of the time they lack the other more useful skills as party leader (scouting, stewardship and so on).

Most useless skilltree for the player AND the companions in my opinion.
 

StaceMcGate

Recruit
+1

1) Makes roguery companions mostly useless

It´s a big issue for me, every time I encounter a companion with high roguery I check his perks and notice that like all of them won´t help my party at all.

So if you want to make something out of roguery you need to take it yourself, it´s stupid in my opinion. And you also don´t want a party leader with high roquery because most of the time they lack the other more useful skills as party leader (scouting, stewardship and so on).

Most useless skilltree for the player AND the companions in my opinion.
Yeah I don't see Roguery ever becoming a party role
hence why I suggested cumulative buff as opposed to party leader one, as rogue leaders
like you said lack the essentially skills.

More than likely it was originally stated to be like a gang leader for settlements, but that seems like a previous design idea
that has been pushed to side as TW realized the amount of feature creep already in the game.


Currently at least it's useful for various quests to send companions on.
 

Earth Dragon

Sergeant
I don’t think Roguery should be a party role. This isn’t D&D.

I do agree it’s skills and it’s bonus should have a bigger effect on the party however.

I’m very happy leveling speed was addressed, but I will say I’m very disappointed with mission XP.

If a mission involved trade, it should give me trade XP upon completion.

If a mission involved Scouting, it should give me scouting XP upon completion.

If a mission involved administration (Farming Revenue) then it should give me Stewardship XP upon completion.
 

BigFat

Veteran
I wouldn't mind seeing a party role added for roguery, or one added for a tactician and could "spec" into underhanded tactics if you wanted. One thing that I'm not a huge fan of in bannerlord is that if I play an INT character I effectively play 3/4 of the roles so seeing some more added could be cool.
In the grand scheme of things, I just don't really see roguery every being good without some kind of overhaul though. So much of it is civilian stuff, which could be ok for prison breaks but now you barely find lords in prison. The rest is bandit troops which was enjoyable to me with 150 perk sometimes but there isn't any "meat" to any of it.
 
all the roguery hate here confuses me. Isn't it one of the strongest skills to put 5 focus on for the player in 1.8? Just convert like 40 forest bandits for your archers in year 1/2, and you'll get a huge economic boost.

sure, the 250/275 perks suck, but +50% battle loot is a massive economic boost, and the 150 roguery perk means that you can add tier 3-4 troops for free in huge 25+ batches.
 
Roguery is still missing what is supposed to be it's main set piece: criminal underworld/bandit warlord roleplay options. Until TW builds out fugitive status, the ability to run bandit hideouts/direct recruit them, make Gang Leaders and criminal rating more related to doing and perhaps the rebellion feature...anyway...

A Spymaster sort of role would be cool, I mean we have someone who was a Spymaster in the main storyline. No idea how that would fit in -- since any conceivable thing like figuring out garrison strengths, party counts, disposition of an enemy party/army is all under the purview of scouting as it is.

I do think Steward feels good as it is though, with it focused on food consumption/morale/wages and Leadership on damage/simulations/Army cohesion
 

svelok

Sergeant
Roguery is still missing what is supposed to be it's main set piece: criminal underworld/bandit warlord roleplay options.
I don't understand this. No other skill works that way; or maybe you could argue smithing and trade kind of do? But those are extremely mechanical rather than roleplay based? (Unless this is just a turn of phrase that I'm reading too much into.)
In the grand scheme of things, I just don't really see roguery every being good without some kind of overhaul though.
Roguery seems to be a weird hybrid or two unrelated Warband skills, looting (battle loot, raiding) and prisoner management (escape chance, profits from ransoming rather than prisoner cap), plus some new also mutually unrelated stuff (civilian outfit combat efficacy, bandit unit buffs, crime rating, disguise chance, even kicking of all things). Point being there's a real lack of unifying theme.

Riding makes you better with horses, medicine makes you better at healing, throwing makes you better at throwing, roguery makes you better at... fielding bandits mostly, which is pretty weird, and better at making money from battles.
 
I don't understand this. No other skill works that way; or maybe you could argue smithing and trade kind of do? But those are extremely mechanical rather than roleplay based? (Unless this is just a turn of phrase that I'm reading too much into.)
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm talking about the whole criminal enterprise playstyle / features that was shown in the Dev Diaries and talked about here. I think if that full system existed it would make Roguery have more mechanical sense - right now Roguery is just Steward/Tactics/Leadership-but-for-Bandits.
 

Helerek

Recruit
I would rework entire roguery tree honestly. Some perks are just straight up bad for how high/far they are in tree. The tree should be divided like below in 3 main parts of roguery. Stage I - solo/infiltration/harassment. Stage of early low/small party harassing villages/peasants. Stage II - raiding caravans/villages/peasants. Stage about gaining wealth and gathering stronger army/troops/defeating parties/armies. Stage III - Bigger battles and kingdom creation.
Roguery should have different rewards for skill aswell:
Increased prisoner capacity - up to 1 prisoner per 1 party member at 100%.
Reduce escape chance of prisoners. Increase sell price of prisoners.
Increase chance to inflitrate/sneak into (already active, just not shown).
Increase chance to persuade devious trait nobles to join your kingdom (already in game, not sure if works).
Increase bandit troop dmg/hp/armor up to + 30% dmg + 15% hp + 15 armor.
Increase raiding speed of villages!
Increase sell price for weapons/armor. After all that's what roguery is about. Smuggling items, while trading is about trading goods. Roguery should be about selling loot from battles.

Perks 1-100 - Focus up on early part of game.
Perk 25 - Increase recruitment speed of bandits / Increase income from tournaments / Increase income from selling prisoners / Increase damage from civilian weapons.
Perk 50 - Reduce payment for geting caught/bribery/ Increased chance to escape parties/settlements prison/
Perk 75 - Increase village stolen goods/ increase items from beaten villager parties/ increase bandit troop xp gain/ increase damage from thrown daggers.
Perk 100 - Get recognized as a bandit along other bandit fellas. Allow recruitment from hideouts and hiding in them. Also selling basing goods etc. Basically unlock hideouts as settlements/hideout from nobles.
Perks 100-200 - after unlocking bandits, we focus more on harassing enemy villages/caravans/peasants.
Perk 125 - Increase party speed when chasing caravan by X% / Increase bandit you command damage by 5% / Increase xp gain for bandit troops/ Increase amount of gold from defeated parties
Perk 150 - Make peace with bandits (they don't run away from you), they alway join for free or gold depending on units.
Perk 175 - Increase income/goods from raiding and increase speed of raiding villages./ Bonus gold based on village hearts rate. The more the better.
Perk 200 - Allow upgrading bandit troops into unique units. Sea raiders > Lake rats. Forest bandits > wolfskins. Etc. They are mercenaries after all and it fits roguery tree. It would also expand our bandit tree and make this stage of game way different since we have new troop tree line unlocked.
Perks 200-300 - Focuses up on politics, kingdom, battles, stronger army.
Perk 225 - Deceitful nobles never leave your kingdom / Increase chance for enemy lord to surrender / Increase party speed when chasing smaller party
Perk 250 - If party consists only of bandits/companions increase party size by 50 / Allow sneaking into castle/town to start siege with open gate
Perk 275 - Increase bandit survival rate by 20% / Increase bandit troop speed by 5%
Perk 300 - Unlock new upgrade for your bandit troops, upgrade to highest tier chief bandit. This would provide new, stronger unit for late game and make bandits on par with other kingdom troop trees.

Ofc I ran out of ideas, but that's more or less how I see roguery tree.
 
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