Single player bots blocking (Multiplayer related!)

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Moth_Queen

Recruit
Single player bots need to block better and feint more to prepare new/casual players for the unsufferable festival of Lvl 800 Master of Death Champions wich is multiplayer currently.

I want a merciless "Division A" difficulty setting to get some passive training in my single player.

Thank you.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
The game does a very poor job of preparing people for multiplayer, or teaching them the game at all really.
What would be great is to have a way to spawn in with a bunch of bots in multiplayer and have them actually fight you in a controlled and somewhat safe enviroment. Combine that with your suggestion and people might actually stick around long enough to learn
 

Mazewind

Sergeant
Yeah that would be awesome !

Some kind of training mode for new players in multiplayer with differents level of AI : Peasant / Mercenary / King / Bannerlord

would be great to train both casual and active players
 

Askey

Veteran
There is the Training grounds in SP, with an average bot and a master bot to practice melee combat, sounds very similar to what you guys are proposing.
 
there was a duel server in warband that had npc bots at various levels to practice with,

im sure once custom servers are out you will see 1 pop up,

dont put more on taleworlds plate, these fine tunings are meant for custom servers
 
Such a cool idea! Also a duel training ground with super fast, insanely good bot's could be a funny thing. Right now all custom servers are down, and there is 6 minutes waiting time on the modes, my only alternative right now is to sleep or play SP, and I don't want to play SP or sleep. Could be cool to have a bot sparring partner to train with then.
 

Hans 77

Knight
WBWF&SVC
The game does a very poor job of preparing people for multiplayer, or teaching them the game at all really.

To be fair, the iceberg of M&B multiplayer combat and game sense runs so deep that it's kind of unfair to ask for a singleplayer AI/program to prepare new players for it. There's so much esoteric stuff to cover that it's just too tall a task.

It would be like a person training for a real-life boxing match by playing Wii Boxing -it simply doesn't translate.
 

Poddicus

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The only way you're actually gonna improve is through practicing on multiplayer
A high difficulty bot is still just a predictable bot
 

Moth_Queen

Recruit
To be fair, the iceberg of M&B multiplayer combat and game sense runs so deep that it's kind of unfair to ask for a singleplayer AI/program to prepare new players for it. There's so much esoteric stuff to cover that it's just too tall a task.
I didn't ask for much. Just better AI blocking and more AI feints. "Esoteric stuff" is moslty microglitches that shall be fixed, not mastered, but ok.
 
To be fair, the iceberg of M&B multiplayer combat and game sense runs so deep that it's kind of unfair to ask for a singleplayer AI/program to prepare new players for it. There's so much esoteric stuff to cover that it's just too tall a task.

It would be like a person training for a real-life boxing match by playing Wii Boxing -it simply doesn't translate.
Singleplayer can't really prepare them for the tactical element in MP. But, it could help them train their muscle memory and reflexes. The training grounds in SP has this element already. But the bots are pathetic and pretty easy to beat.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
To be fair, the iceberg of M&B multiplayer combat and game sense runs so deep that it's kind of unfair to ask for a singleplayer AI/program to prepare new players for it. There's so much esoteric stuff to cover that it's just too tall a task.

It would be like a person training for a real-life boxing match by playing Wii Boxing -it simply doesn't translate.
The tutorial doesnt teach how to kick, chamber, couch lance. Doesnt mention stances. Doesnt teach perfect blocking. Doesnt mention chaining attacks. No feinting either.
Doesnt teach the difference in swings, doesnt mention crushthrough, axe bonus to shields

This is all things multiplayers by now know (besides chambering) and any new player will be annihilated and overwhelmed within seconds, then leave the game because its not fun.

Players need an area where they can practise this. The burden of knowledge is already really heavy, it'll only get worse over time.
 

Moth_Queen

Recruit
This is all things multiplayers by now know (besides chambering) and any new player will be annihilated and overwhelmed within seconds, then leave the game because its not fun.

This.

Advanced players also leave the game for same reasons. After chambering, feints and kickslashes, there be a whole new world of mousebending, phase swings and turncap abusing.
 

Askey

Veteran
This is all things multiplayers by now know (besides chambering) and any new player will be annihilated and overwhelmed within seconds, then leave the game because its not fun.

Thats not entirely true, Siege is a good mode for people to get started in. Choose the side of the defenders, and stick close to your team-mates. Even if experienced players try ramboing, they can get quickly overwhelmed and cut down. If you're lucky to play the server on a good day with plenty of folks on there is more room for mistakes. The competitive nature of the game is lost more in this game mode than others that are currently available, you have to work as a team - which generally means there is plenty of room for newer, weaker players on that team as the more stronger members will make up for it.
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
Thats not entirely true, Siege is a good mode for people to get started in. Choose the side of the defenders, and stick close to your team-mates. Even if experienced players try ramboing, they can get quickly overwhelmed and cut down. If you're lucky to play the server on a good day with plenty of folks on there is more room for mistakes. The competitive nature of the game is lost more in this game mode than others that are currently available, you have to work as a team - which generally means there is plenty of room for newer, weaker players on that team as the more stronger members will make up for it.
Siege is probably one of the worst places to start. If you want to practise actual fighting you would need some gamemode where you can constantly practise, like TDM or Deathmatch. Staying close to your teammates sounds nice but doesn't work since everyone is random and doing whatever. The point isn't to become better at teamworking in Siege but rather become more competent in actual fights. Siege doesn't really teach you that since its a lot of random things happening and god knows whats going on. As a competitive player its frustrating to get hit by hits from noobs who didn't mean to hit you but do so anyway.
 

Askey

Veteran
Siege is probably one of the worst places to start. If you want to practise actual fighting you would need some gamemode where you can constantly practise, like TDM or Deathmatch. Staying close to your teammates sounds nice but doesn't work since everyone is random and doing whatever. The point isn't to become better at teamworking in Siege but rather become more competent in actual fights. Siege doesn't really teach you that since its a lot of random things happening and god knows whats going on. As a competitive player its frustrating to get hit by hits from noobs who didn't mean to hit you but do so anyway.
No you missed my point, I suggested Siege for newer players because its more forgiving, than Skirmish (that often has bands of elite clans and is directly competitive), captain mode (because what are you going to learn from this mode?), TDM (Or what I like to call MoshPit mode, where you spawn and instantly die or get often get ridden down by av). At least in Siege there is some semblance of organisation and the ability to take a step back and be an archer for example without getting too involved with the mayhem. There you can ease into the melee fighting at your own pace.

Also "teamwork" usually means on the siege server, defend x, y or z. Where most of your teammates will be found, rather than trying to defend a flag solo.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Thats not entirely true, Siege is a good mode for people to get started in. Choose the side of the defenders, and stick close to your team-mates. Even if experienced players try ramboing, they can get quickly overwhelmed and cut down. If you're lucky to play the server on a good day with plenty of folks on there is more room for mistakes. The competitive nature of the game is lost more in this game mode than others that are currently available, you have to work as a team - which generally means there is plenty of room for newer, weaker players on that team as the more stronger members will make up for it.
Until they get hit by a ton of horse meat for 200 damage, forcing them to spawn as peasants, making them even easier targets, or get shot by arrows they cant even see comming and dying without even getting to swing their weapon. Cant always go defender on siege, and even if you get lucky on a good day, boom server crash.

Teamplaying is one thing, but "teamplay" on Siege and TDM is grouping up in a ball and randomly slashing, it doesnt teach anything. The best way to learn the game is to have a 1 vs 1 situation with bots where they can test and see what works and what doesnt. Hell just having people spawn in and get a feel for swinging would be nice.

This.

Advanced players also leave the game for same reasons. After chambering, feints and kickslashes, there be a whole new world of mousebending, phase swings and turncap abusing.
Yeah the meta isnt fun. Ghost kicks are honestly a bigger issue than throwing weapons. Turncap abuse is annoying but just means you fight abit more defensive at the start to see if you're fighting an owl or not, still not great, turncap and shorter swing arcs would be nice.
Oh and movement speed differences lets work on that. So much to do still.
 

Askey

Veteran
Until they get hit by a ton of horse meat for 200 damage, forcing them to spawn as peasants, making them even easier targets, or get shot by arrows they cant even see comming and dying without even getting to swing their weapon. Cant always go defender on siege, and even if you get lucky on a good day, boom server crash.

Teamplaying is one thing, but "teamplay" on Siege and TDM is grouping up in a ball and randomly slashing, it doesnt teach anything. The best way to learn the game is to have a 1 vs 1 situation with bots where they can test and see what works and what doesnt. Hell just having people spawn in and get a feel for swinging would be nice.


Yeah the meta isnt fun. Ghost kicks are honestly a bigger issue than throwing weapons. Turncap abuse is annoying but just means you fight abit more defensive at the start to see if you're fighting an owl or not, still not great, turncap and shorter swing arcs would be nice.
Oh and movement speed differences lets work on that. So much to do still.
But the bots suck? How are players going to learn how to fight properly against other players if they don't fight them at all?
Which game mode (that currently exists) in your mind, and others if they are reading is best for a new player playing MP then?

The point I'm trying to make is if people want to be able to learn how to fight other players, Siege is probably the most forgiving game mode that is available right now for newer players.
If you disagree and indeed think bots are better to practice with then you're in luck, SP has a training ground that you can practice with bots.
 

hoonii

Knight
making players fight bots first before making them fight real players is like teaching a 1st grader kid multiplying the first week and straight up forcing to them learn trigonometry 2nd week, at least in bannerlord that is
 
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