Simulation vs Mission

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Mumiago

Recruit
The game is literally unplayable. I consider sieges as the most fun part of the game and there is a huge balance issue. Using simulation "send troops" gives siege defenders incredible advantage compared to actually playing the mission where defenders barely have any advantage. So for example 1200 attackers vs 600 defenders on lvl3 walls. In simulation the defenders win with barely sustaining 300 casualties. If I choose to play the mission instead the defenders stand no chance no matter how many extra kills I get as player or if I try to command the defense by myself without the help of AI. How am I supposed to play a game that encourages me to not actually play it ?

Player has almost no control over commanding a siege and the AI is pretty bad at defending. You need to somehow add that huge advantage that defenders have in battle simulation into the actual mission as well if player chooses to play it otherwise whats the point of ever commanding a siege defense or using battle simulation while being the attacker.
 
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Using simulation "send troops" gives siege defenders incredible advantage compared to actually playing the mission where defenders barely have any advantage. So for example 1200 attackers vs 600 defenders on lvl 3 walls. In simulation the defenders win, barely sustaining 300 casualties. If I choose to play the mission instead the defenders stand no chance no matter how many extra kills I get as player or if I try to command the defense by myself without the help of AI. How am I supposed to play a game that encourages me to not actually play it ?

You need to somehow add that huge advantage that defenders have in battle simulation into the actual mission as well if player chooses to play it otherwise whats the point of ever commanding a siege defense or using battle simulation while being the attacker.
To give context to your statement that in autoresolve, defenders can beat a force twice their size with ~50% casualties, I ran a series of custom battles with the following parameters:

Battle size was set to High (500 spawned) on some battles, and Very High (600 spawned) on others. (Defenders did better on High.)
Defenders had 400 men (Empire 25% inf 25% ranged 25% melee cav 25% ranged cav), level 3 fortifications, two ballistae, and two catapults.
Attackers had 800 men (Empire 25% inf 25% ranged 25% melee cav 25% ranged cav), siege ram, siege tower, one ballista, and one onager.
I just let the battles run without interfering, but a good player could inflict 1-100 more casualties depending on how good they are with the catapult.

On Vostrum, defenders won with 159 men left (~60% casualties).
On Charas, defenders won with 68 men left (~80% casualties).
On Jalmarys, attackers won with 13 men left (100% casualties/routs, 10 remaining defenders retreated to the keep).
On Syronea, defenders won with 105 men left (~75% casualties).
On Quyaz, attackers won with 20 men left (100% casualties/routs, 5 remaining defenders retreated to the keep).
On Seonon, defenders won with 106 men left (~75% casualties).
On Sibir, attackers won with 30 men left (100% casualties/routs, 52 remaining defenders retreated to the keep).
On Chaikand, defenders won with 80 men left (~75% casualties).

So I would overall agree that defenders need more advantage in real sieges to compete with autocalc sieges. Your point of being discouraged from actually fighting the battle is 100% valid.

However, we should also consider that if the defenders have too much advantage that will make the game even grindier for the player, who has to besiege over 100 times to win the game. So, it could be argued that autoresolve defense calculation should just be reduced down to match the outcome of real battles. But that would increase snowballing by making the AI take territory faster, and would be unrealistic too - siege assaults in real life had a strong defender bias.

So I think the best thing is to meet in the middle; some small buffs to defenders in real battles, and a small nerf to the force multiplier of fortifications in autocalc battles.

Some ways the defenders can be given more tactical advantage by their fortifications:



* Make siege ladders need to be carried to the walls before they can deploy, rather than starting right at the base of the wall.

* Make it quicker and easier to push away siege ladders, or, make siege ladders destructible. Currently they are the only siege tool which is invulnerable, but if they were destroyable and all got destroyed, the attackers would be forced to go through the front gate or retreat.

* Make AI troops have more difficulty defending themselves in melee combat while climbing a siege ladder? Human players can stay at the same level of effectiveness as now.

* Slightly increase the HP of the inner gate.

* Reduce the number of anti-arrow barricades attackers get.

I think a few of these should be enough to buff defenders in sieges to see similar results to autoresolve.
 
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Yeah, I've mentioned this before. Still a work in progress I think. For the time being, just consider Siege Sim as a Cheat for defenders.

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But that would increase snowballing by making the AI take territory faster, and would be unrealistic too - siege assaults in real life had a strong defender bias.
Which is why siege assaults were so rare historically. Currently siege assaults are the most common battle type in the mid to late game, and they're such an insane manpower drain that you have to be constantly recruiting in order to keep up. I wouldn't mind siege assaults causing massive casualties if they were less common and the game didn't expect you to conquer the entire map in every playthrough.

I agree that the defender bias should be reduced for autoresolve though, because it's the only way the AI gets to fight battles and it sets the pace for the entire game. Anything that increases the permanence of armies is good in my eyes.
 
Which is why siege assaults were so rare historically. Currently siege assaults are the most common battle type in the mid to late game, and they're such an insane manpower drain that you have to be constantly recruiting in order to keep up. I wouldn't mind siege assaults causing massive casualties if they were less common and the game didn't expect you to conquer the entire map in every playthrough.

I agree that the defender bias should be reduced for autoresolve though, because it's the only way the AI gets to fight battles and it sets the pace for the entire game. Anything that increases the permanence of armies is good in my eyes.
One thing that would be fantastic is if siege defenders surrendered more often in situations where it would make sense for them to do so- low food or being seriously outnumbered. That's something which did happen historically.

Even better, if the player could potentially convince a castle/town to surrender by passing some charm and renown checks, with the difficulty of success impacted by the ratio of defenders to attackers.

I haven't seen even tiny garrisons that are hugely outnumbered be willing to surrender.
 
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New patch is in and its still not fixed at all. Defenders are still inflicting like 800% more damage in simulations compared to playing the mission :sad:(( big sad.
 
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