Simple question why could they not keep the old warband MP system?

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medievaljoe

Recruit
Hi there i am new, i bought the game, and tbh i bought it for multiplayer as i really enjoyed warband mp.

However, yes i realise it is a totally different engine, system, coding, but the warband multiplayer system was so basic, but worked so well, you could literally choose whatever you wanted from a bunch of stuff, and thats it, you are in the server, freedom to do what you want when you want.

It is quite clear that taleworlds attempt to be mainstream like a cod with the loadouts and egaming has failed miserably.

Why not scrap it and go back to the old warband style multiplayer? We get to choose our uniform, weapon, and play. That is what kept us all playing for so long. Ever heard of the saying if it aint broke dont fix?
 

flashn00b

Sergeant at Arms
I think the intention is to stop 8K gold hoarders from becoming immortal death machines that can win multiple 1v5s without dying, as it can sometimes happen with the old class system. In theory, the new class system allows a 200 cost Knight to still be cut down by a peasant with a decent spear. In practice, we're left with a mess of several gameplay imbalances that I am convinced are intentional design decisions.
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
That would be too much fun for the players and TW will have none of that, you get your esport Frankenstein and will have to like it :lol:
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
I think the intention is to stop 8K gold hoarders from becoming immortal death machines that can win multiple 1v5s without dying, as it can sometimes happen with the old class system. In theory, the new class system allows a 200 cost Knight to still be cut down by a peasant with a decent spear. In practice, we're left with a mess of several gameplay imbalances that I am convinced are intentional design decisions.
Because of how the perks work, a peasant for the most part wont have access to a spear, and even if, without the cav breaker perk, it'll be like throwing a rock at a house. Even if you stop the horse, it'll do pitiful damage, and the cavalry will probably just trot towards, eat the 30 damage to the horse and stab you in the head for 100+ at point blank with no speed.
 

flashn00b

Sergeant at Arms
Because of how the perks work, a peasant for the most part wont have access to a spear, and even if, without the cav breaker perk, it'll be like throwing a rock at a house. Even if you stop the horse, it'll do pitiful damage, and the cavalry will probably just trot towards, eat the 30 damage to the horse and stab you in the head for 100+ at point blank with no speed.
I think one of the biggest perks with peasant polearms is that cavalry got buffed quite heavily with Long Spears as the default light cav weapon, and Lances being the default Heavy Cav weapon, since those changes make the Pilum and Sturgian Short Spear utterly useless against cav.

And I wouldn't underestimate the usefulness non-Sturgian non-Imperial peasant spears tbh. Once a horse gets reared, the peasant needs only to switch to his swinging weapon to deal even more damage to the horse. Best case scenario would be that the horse is wounded to the point where a stray javelin is all that it'll take to kill it. Worst case scenario is that the horse dies, and if you're a Knight or Mameluke, you're basically defenseless.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
I think one of the biggest perks with peasant polearms is that cavalry got buffed quite heavily with Long Spears as the default light cav weapon, and Lances being the default Heavy Cav weapon, since those changes make the Pilum and Sturgian Short Spear utterly useless against cav.

And I wouldn't underestimate the usefulness non-Sturgian non-Imperial peasant spears tbh. Once a horse gets reared, the peasant needs only to switch to his swinging weapon to deal even more damage to the horse. Best case scenario would be that the horse is wounded to the point where a stray javelin is all that it'll take to kill it. Worst case scenario is that the horse dies, and if you're a Knight or Mameluke, you're basically defenseless.
Cavalry also has 150 proficiencies in polearm while infantry have a max of 50. There might also be a lack of delay on releasing held attacks for cavalry, I havent tested it myself, just feels like it.

The damage you'd deal to the cav, if you managed to rear it, is maybe 50, which the horse would soak up. Considering horses have 200+ hp the damage a non cavalry breaker infantry can do is pretty low. Although light cavalry can still get pretty punished by it. Chances are still that once you stop the horse and try to switch weapon, the stun on the cavalry is over and he'll stab you in the face. if you move behind the rider, you might not have enough time to hit before he revs up his engine.

The cavalry vs infantry engagement in this game is abit of a mess.
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Cavalry also has 150 proficiencies in polearm while infantry have a max of 50. There might also be a lack of delay on releasing held attacks for cavalry, I havent tested it myself, just feels like it.
you know what also has 150 polearm proficiencies?
palatine guards and horse archers
kekw-kek.gif
ok, seriously though. what the **** is that. not only do you give palatine guard a VERY good melee weapon, you also give them more proficiency to use it than infantries get? Stop.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
you know what also has 150 polearm proficiencies?
palatine guards and horse archers
kekw-kek.gif
ok, seriously though. what the **** is that. not only do you give palatine guard a VERY good melee weapon, you also give them more proficiency to use it than infantries get? Stop.
Yeah... Warrior for Sturgia gets 150 too, makes sense because it gets a spear perk, including extra damage to cavalry, but Voulgier has the medium infantry perk, which also gives a spear, without having the proficiencies (it still has 50)

Basically things are updated ingame, but the proficiences are overlooked or forgotten. Minor thing though.
Still sucks that everyone has 50 one handed and two handed skills. Infantry have the lowest proficiencies by far.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
However, yes i realise it is a totally different engine, system, coding, but the warband multiplayer system was so basic, but worked so well, you could literally choose whatever you wanted from a bunch of stuff, and thats it, you are in the server, freedom to do what you want when you want.
Because 8+ years ago some people in a week long series of meetings highlighted a few flaws in Warband MP, some real some incorrect, and this is the system they developed in response. They took no feedback on these ideas, announced them after years of development, then when the feedback was near unanimously negative or at best apathetic, they dug in their heels. Consider that it is now 3 years ago we were told that there is no point discussing or giving feedback on this. Entire new games are developed in that timeframe. It is a remarkable example of how a bubble in the planning stage can derail a project, and how without the right people empowered to fix it, that project will never be righted.

It's clear now that the few benefits the system has are completely outweighed by the negatives - they can't even release new game modes easily because their system lacks any sort of transferability and needs constantly rebalanced for each mode - but we will never see it replaced by Taleworlds.
Why not scrap it and go back to the old warband style multiplayer? We get to choose our uniform, weapon, and play. That is what kept us all playing for so long. Ever heard of the saying if it aint broke dont fix?
Because TW are too prideful to admit when they are wrong.
 

medievaljoe

Recruit
@Last post if that is true that they will not admit they did wrong, then that is very sad.
Apart from the fanboys who would praise TW if they put their own mother on sale on ebay, i can not genuinely believe anybody who enjoyed the original warband and mount blade enjoy this new load out system.

In fact if they want to fix any multiplayer issues. Simply go back to the old system.
With their team of 100 or however many they have now it should not take more than 2 weeks to remove a load of code, create a bit of interface giving you options to choose what you want.

Then the base system for multiplayer is okay. A month later they can release the ability to have your own customer server.

And then they can focus on single player.

Unfortunatly, logic does not seem to really apply much
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
It is really hilarious to see people still coming in and making posts about this today, considering that is has been brought up for like 2-3 years now without any response whatsoever from TaleWorlds. To answer your questions: all we can do is guess, because TW don't reply.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
For those who want to go deeper and know where we come from, start reading this thread, but "Abandon all hope, those of you who enter here"... disclaimer: only for masochists.

Practically a reliable summary would be what OurGloriousLeader has said. There's nothing to do here anymore but spin around on the hamster wheel...
 

Helz

Knight
I think the intention is to stop 8K gold hoarders from becoming immortal death machines that can win multiple 1v5s without dying, as it can sometimes happen with the old class system. In theory, the new class system allows a 200 cost Knight to still be cut down by a peasant with a decent spear. In practice, we're left with a mess of several gameplay imbalances that I am convinced are intentional design decisions.
Tell us you never played Warband without telling us... This was never a problem. Give a noob full plate everything and a cloth-wearing veteran armed with a stick will pummel him mercilessly.
 

Frodo.

Regular
Tell us you never played Warband without telling us... This was never a problem. Give a noob full plate everything and a cloth-wearing veteran armed with a stick will pummel him mercilessly.
true lol, I never feared the man in metal. But the naked big stick demon...
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
For those who want to go deeper and know where we come from, start reading this thread, but "Abandon all hope, those of you who enter here"... disclaimer: only for masochists.

Practically a reliable summary would be what OurGloriousLeader has said. There's nothing to do here anymore but spin around on the hamster wheel...
Hey, I remember this thread.

Too bad virtually nothing ever came of it, there were some great suggestions in there from several members. I wish I had a reason to be as invested in BL now as I did then.
 
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