SP Native Simetrical's View of Reality™, v. 1.0 Beta

[Simetrical]

DOWNLOAD HERE!

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======= Simetrical's View of Reality™ Mod, v. 1.0 beta =======
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This mod is my view of how things should be in M&B, with an eye toward (what I perceive as) realism. Features include:

* New shields and armor, from the HugeMod
* All melee and thrown weapons have their damage more or less doubled, and all armor's and shields' protective values are more or less doubled (this makes armor more important)
* Thrown weapons now come in much smaller quantities (3 or 6 instead of 7 or 15)
* Bows and crossbows don't have their damage raised, so they're less effective in general
* Athletics is capped at 2
* Encumbrance is reduced, so someone in heavy armor can run at a reasonable speed (but still not as fast as someone who's unarmored)
* The highly haphazard shield naming convention is changed to a heraldic naming convention (e.g., "war shield" becomes "shield party per cross, azure and gules", "heraldic shield" becomes "shield or, three fleur de lis azure in bend")
* Armor values are made somewhat more reasonable (e.g., heraldic armor—now hauberk with tabard gules, lion rampant or—no longer has better protection than a normal hauberk; black armor now has the same protection as normal plate; etc.)
* Couched lance damage is removed—you must now manually click to attack when charging. As a consequence, unfortunately, the polearms skill is disabled in favor of the normal one-/two-handed skills
* In the arena, bows and arrows are replaced with staves and a few javelins, so melee fighting is essentially all there is in tournaments
* Weapons and armor I deem to be weird (e.g., battle forks) or redundant (e.g., felt caps) are provisionally removed
* Weapons and armor are priced more reasonably, IMO; swords cost far more than spears, for instance, and plate armor is worth a fortune
* Higher-ranking Swadian and Vaegir troops are differentiated by shields and armor: Swadians use a cross motif, while the Vaegirs use animals and more complicated heraldic devices; other troop types use very simple or essentially non-heraldic designs

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======= Usage Notes =======
===== (Important, Read) =====
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* THE POLEARMS SKILL IS NOT USED. Don't put points in Polearms; put points in either One- or Two-Handed Weapons instead.
* Lances cannot be couched. You must attack as normal with lances on horseback.
* Bows are risky weapons to use. They might be useful for support, but don't expect the kind of lethality you can get in vanilla.

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======= Installation =======
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1) Back up your Data, Mods, and Textures directories.

2) Extract to your Mount&Blade directory.

3) If you want to start a new game, rename Mount&BladeDataskills.txt to skills3.txt and skills2.txt to skills.txt. This will implement the limits on Athletics. If you do this, you can no longer play previous saved games; otherwise you'll be able to.

4) Play.

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======= Explanations =======
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Yeah, I know from the thread: everyone is going to say "WTF, XYZABC aren't realistic!" So here's my reasoning for two notable changes.

* Couched lance damage is grossly overstated. Yes, lances will hurt if you charge with them, a) no, they will not hurt three times as much as axes if you charge with them. And b) you can aim a lance as you charge with it in real life (jousters aimed quite a bit to their left, remember). And c) you can't couch pikes but you can couch staffs, which is ridiculous. And d) actually attacking is more skill-intensive, IMO. And e) the AI is awful at using couched lances while the player is 1337, which results in a major power discrepancy. So I think better to be rid of couching.
* Capping athletics is mainly because people can backpedal as fast as they can advance in M&B, and I figure at least with capped athletics they won't be able to backpedal *faster* than you can probably advance (since two points in athletics isn't hard to get).

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========= Credits =========
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* New shields, armor, faces: Lost-Lamb, kazak borispavlovgrozny, Vaerraent, MaDpRoGrAmMeR, Eagle114th, amman4ny, n00854180t, compiled by n00854180t
* Everything else: Me
* Much thanks also to Effidian for his Unofficial M&B Editor, without which no way in hell would I have made this.

Anyone may use, modify, and redistribute any of my content freely, provided I'm given appropriate credit. My content includes all the .txt files included in this download. For graphical content, please ask the appropriate authors.

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========= Support =========
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No support for this, sorry. I *may or may not* patch it, update it, etc. If you encounter any troubles, post your problem in this thread. If you forgot to back up, I have sufficient pity on your pathetic soul to have uploaded a backup for you here.

 

[Howzer]

Umm, I really don't like tha athletics cap and removing lance couching is ridiculous.

Other than that it sounds pretty good.

 

[Tittils]

I think this sounds great. But I don't like the couched lance feature to be removed, but if you can come up with a good alternative to it, it would be ok.

 

[Lost-Lamb]

Savefile is the uppload server you want, unless you have a friend willing to host ofcourse.

And I too like the idea except the nerfing of couched lance, it is IMHO the most powerfull attack in the game but thats just how it really was. You charge someone with a lance and his dead for sure

 

[Penguin]

Hmm, sorry for going a little OT, but you wouldn't happen to be the Rome: Total Realism team member Simetrical? If so, all M&B fans rejoice, we have one hell of a modder here

 

[Simetrical]

Umm, I really don't like tha athletics cap . . .

I might be inclined to keep it if I could slow down backpedaling (animation editor, anyone?). I mainly want to stop enemies from moving backwards faster than you can move forwards.

And I too like the idea except the nerfing of couched lance, it is IMHO the most powerfull attack in the game but thats just how it really was. You charge someone with a lance and his dead for sure

No more than he's dead for sure if you charge at full speed and swing a greatsword. But the game gives the lance far more power. Furthermore, the AI is very bad at using the couched lance, which gives the player a great advantage. Still more, you can couch staffs but not pikes—clearly a ridiculous setup. The idea that you can only strike enemies immediately to the right of you is silly as well—in jousts, remember, the knights aimed substantially to their left. Finally, I've found that manually attacking appears to be more skill-intensive than just using a couched lance.

Hmm, sorry for going a little OT, but you wouldn't happen to be the Rome: Total Realism team member Simetrical? If so, all M&B fans rejoice, we have one hell of a modder here

I am indeed the same person, although I'm no longer a member of that team. I see my reputation precedes me.

-Simetrical

 

[pasisti]

I actually don't like any of the ideas. But it's just my opinion.

 

[Narayanese]

All the changes you've listed seems like changes for the better.
I hope I can download it soon.

Also the falchion is underpowered as it is now, a weapon for river pirates, I'd like to have it faster or more damaging.

My wishlist for you also includes more differentiated stats for crossbows, so that light croosbow is not just a cheaper version of heavy and sniper, but is considerably faster.

 

[Ancientwanker]

Sounds interesting but Armagan has said the next version will be out in early july (after his vacation). This will include some mod tools which means the new data formats are probably in it. I read in the troops.txt thread that flags are being moved around.

This means that all changes to the data files made in the next week or two weeks will be irrelevant very soon.

 

[Colovion]

Awesome. I can't wait to see what you have for M&B, Simetrical. The changes to the pricing for equipment is a great idea, and I also can't wait to see what kind of balancing you can come up with for the armour values and attack between various weapons.

I was wondering this of someone who would know;

is there any way to mod some kind of "Battlefield Looting" system up? Similar to stripping the enemies of usable equipment (non-damaged in battle). Or alternatively just getting 'drops' of money and a random piece of equipment that the enemy was utlizing. I guess that might be something to be put into the game itself though...

 

[Simetrical]

I actually don't like any of the ideas. But it's just my opinion.

That's fine. Everyone should play whatever mods they prefer. I'm mainly making this mod to suit my own tastes, and anyone who likes it can use it as well.

Also the falchion is underpowered as it is now, a weapon for river pirates, I'd like to have it faster or more damaging.

In general, I'll probably be going for the concept of all vaguely similar weapons being basically equal, aside from gross differences like reach and the like. Is a falchion really better or worse than a scimitar? Not inherently. Obviously there would be some differences between those and a longsword, for example, but they'd still be in basically the same class of weapon. They could be expected to be much better than a makeshift weapon like a pitchfork, however.

Ideally, I'd be able to change the item modifiers, and thereby make the differences in items primarily differences in quality of manufacture—a "well-crafted scimitar" would be more expensive and better than an "apprenticework scimitar," say, but less expensive and worse than a "beautifully-made scimitar" or whatever. That should be the main difference.

My wishlist for you also includes more differentiated stats for crossbows, so that light croosbow is not just a cheaper version of heavy and sniper, but is considerably faster.

I've removed sniper crossbows already. Now that you've mentioned it, I've rebalanced the other crossbows as well.

. . . all changes to the data files made in the next week or two weeks will be irrelevant very soon.

I know, but I have nothing better to do with my life anyway.

is there any way to mod some kind of "Battlefield Looting" system up? Similar to stripping the enemies of usable equipment (non-damaged in battle).

I would really like that. I haven't looked into it yet.

-Simetrical

 

[Arcozelo]

Just stating my opinion about some things:

Couched lance damage - I think it is a great feature in the game. I would hate to see it leave. However, it is true the AI sucks with it, and the fact that you can only aim to your right is very unrealistic. However, I've been surprised quite a few times by couched lance strikes from the AI, and I found it a lot of fun (not in the exact moment it ocurred, though). Your idea about requiring people to strike manually will either result in 1 - you can turn around almost 180 degrees on horseback, thrust your lance and kill someone (which is unrealistic), unless you find a way to "lock" aiming the lance to a narrow arc in front of the horse, say 45º to both sides, or 2 - lances will become useless because they don't do much damage (which already happens if those lances are in the AI's hands and the AI doesn't couch lance by dumb luck).

I think the 2H sword strike from horseback should be more letal too. Maybe a solution for both these problems would be to greatly increase the speed bonus effect. That way, striking from a charging horse would do a whole lot more damage, while the aiming-your-lance-back or thrusting the lance anywhere with your horse stopped wouldn't do much (as you would expect in real life). The only problem with these things is managing to keep things balanced.

Personally I like the bows in the arena. It makes things more random, and makes those battles where you spawn as a 2H sword wielder (with no shield) against 2 guys with bows really challenging fights, and the victories a lot sweeter. You know you can feint the AI by strafing in one direction while it is aiming at you, and then strafing in the oposite direction as soon as it looses the arrow? The archer will aim a little ahead of you in the direction you were originally strafing (so it can hit you while you're moving), and when you reverse directions, the arrow just misses you. It doesn't work up close, of course, but at a distance, it's better than being made a pincushion.

Battle forks don't seem weird. They sound like an ordinary pitchfork (peasant's weapon) heavily modified. You can imagine they're the work of some crafty peasant that wants a better edge in combat, but doesn't have the cash to buy a proper weapon. So he modifies his pitchfork into a better fighting tool, and when he sells it, he sells it expensive, as it is a specialist's weapon.
Also, they are my favorite polearm. Couched lance damage with that is devastating, and they deal a lot of damage if you just wield them about.

The redundant armor adds a little flavor to the game. You can wear felt caps or nomad hats or other pieces of armor, and you look very different, although the armor value is the same. I'd add MORE redundant armor, not remove the already existing. Comeon, if you keep that spirit up, you'll end up calling armor +7 or +8, instead of a proper name.

I agree with the weapon and armor prices. Plate is way too cheap relatively to chain, for instance. And a pike is supposed to be a cheap weapon - barons used to equip entire armies with pikes because they were so cheap and still packed a nice punch. Swords are very expensive things. It would unbalance the game, true. However, I'd also suggest you try and modify the weapon proficiency with different kinds of weapons. For instance, pikes were nearly useless unless the infantry using them was well trained in their use, while even an unexperienced guy with a sword could dish out some serious damage. Maybe make polearms more proficiency bonus dependant, and for instance 2H weapons less proficiency dependant. Distinguishing axes from swords in terms of profiency would also be nice, but I think that'd be a bit difficult, involving too many new variables.

God this was a huge post.

 

[Simetrical]

Your idea about requiring people to strike manually will either result in 1 - you can turn around almost 180 degrees on horseback, thrust your lance and kill someone (which is unrealistic), unless you find a way to "lock" aiming the lance to a narrow arc in front of the horse, say 45º to both sides, or 2 - lances will become useless because they don't do much damage (which already happens if those lances are in the AI's hands and the AI doesn't couch lance by dumb luck).

1 isn't true even in the normal game—you can attack to the sides, but not directly in back of you. I would estimate you have a 90° blind spot behind you. Even if it were true, remember, the speed penalty would normally hurt.

As for 2, my testing has shown that lances are far from useless, just not insanely devastating.

I think the 2H sword strike from horseback should be more letal too. Maybe a solution for both these problems would be to greatly increase the speed bonus effect. That way, striking from a charging horse would do a whole lot more damage, while the aiming-your-lance-back or thrusting the lance anywhere with your horse stopped wouldn't do much (as you would expect in real life).

I think that swung weapons should probably benefit less from speed than thrust weapons. After all, swung weapons normally depend on high momentum, while with thrusting weapons this is less true. So increasing velocity by a fixed amount would have less effect on swung weapons than thrust weapons.

In any case, the primary benefit of attacking at speed is that you get in your blow and then get out of range of your enemy, then can repeat freely. You also score some extra damage, but the important thing is that an opponent on foot can't respond properly to your attacks.

Personally I like the bows in the arena. It makes things more random, and makes those battles where you spawn as a 2H sword wielder (with no shield) against 2 guys with bows really challenging fights, and the victories a lot sweeter.

Well, tastes differ. The javelins are certainly fearsome, you can be sure of that, there are just a lot fewer of them.

Battle forks don't seem weird. They sound like an ordinary pitchfork (peasant's weapon) heavily modified. You can imagine they're the work of some crafty peasant that wants a better edge in combat, but doesn't have the cash to buy a proper weapon. So he modifies his pitchfork into a better fighting tool, and when he sells it, he sells it expensive, as it is a specialist's weapon.

How exactly does he modify it? Surely if he could afford to significantly modify his pitchfork, it would be better to just get a spear? The only reason anyone would use a pitchfork in battle is because they have one handy anyway. It's inherently an improvised weapon.

The redundant armor adds a little flavor to the game. You can wear felt caps or nomad hats or other pieces of armor, and you look very different, although the armor value is the same. I'd add MORE redundant armor, not remove the already existing. Comeon, if you keep that spirit up, you'll end up calling armor +7 or +8, instead of a proper name.

I'm actually increasing redundancy for the most part, at least at the high levels—the armor formerly known as heraldic is now identical to a mail hauberk, for instance, and black armor to normal plate. Now that you point it out, I'll be sure to maintain redundancy at lower levels as well, although the protective values of things like felt hats will be all but trivial.

For instance, pikes were nearly useless unless the infantry using them was well trained in their use, while even an unexperienced guy with a sword could dish out some serious damage.

Hardly. A pikeman required training, of course, but nowhere near as much as a swordsman. Pikemen stay in tight formation and need only to hold their formation and thrust at enemies; swordsmen need to learn a vast number of complicated maneuvers, learn to read their enemies, build up their reflexes, etc. Pikemen just thrust at whatever comes their way, safe behind a wall of pointy things.

Maybe make polearms more proficiency bonus dependant, and for instance 2H weapons less proficiency dependant. Distinguishing axes from swords in terms of profiency would also be nice, but I think that'd be a bit difficult, involving too many new variables.

It would be nice if I could modify proficiencies in this way, but I really can't. That's hardcoded—only armagan could change it. (Well, or conceivably anyone with a sufficiently good grasp of assembly code, but that's not me.)

 

[Magnus]

I like the profeciencies as they are.
It allows me to pick any one handed weapon I like and use it, without having to spend time fighting river pirates with it to improve it.

Combat moves in M&B aren't trained moves, they're just swings or thrusts. There's no real mastery of the art, and I like it that way.

As for this:

How exactly does he modify it? Surely if he could afford to significantly modify his pitchfork, it would be better to just get a spear? The only reason anyone would use a pitchfork in battle is because they have one handy anyway. It's inherently an improvised weapon.

A battle fork isn't a pitchfork used by peasants.
Just like the flail, it's a military version of the craftsman tool.
A battlefork allows for two thrusting points, prevents the weapon from penetrating the target, as a spear could against an unarmoured foe, and... well, if you're running out of farming tools, or want to settle as a farme some time...

 

[ShangTang]

Sounds like you're taking out all the stuff that makes the game fun.

 

[Magnus]

Oh, by the way, felt caps (they're the read, round hats, right?) allows me to play my role as a peasant better.

At times I might be bareheaded, but I think it's a natural choice for someone who spends time in the sun all day.

 

[Simetrical]

A battle fork isn't a pitchfork used by peasants.
Just like the flail, it's a military version of the craftsman tool.

So did they actually exist? I'm not sure yet whether I want to leave in semi-plausible but ahistorical weapons (after all, this is a different world), but I'll certainly include any basic weapons that were used historically.

Sounds like you're taking out all the stuff that makes the game fun.

Well, some would doubtless feel that way. Others, as you may have noticed, feel otherwise. The former don't have to play the mod, of course.

 

[Big_John]

what's up sim? are you going to get a big M&B mod team together one of these days?

your ideas look interesting. i haven't even looked at this game in some time, just waiting for a new version, so any change would be good lol. i'll definitely keep an eye out for your mod work. btw, removing the couched lance is a great idea, imo. good luck.

 

[Tentacle]

I'm thinking that Neck Armour should be introduced, the idea being that certain helmets (eg. padded hood) would give a little bonus to neck protection. If someone is charging at you with a longsword, if you don't block it, you will be decapitated. Your neck armour rating will reduce the chance of being decapitated by 10 each point. E.g. you have 4 neck armour, ou have a 60% chance of being decapitated (this will kill the player, but he respawns will all his stuff at Zendar, although all his hireables will disappear exept Marnid and Borcha). Great helmets and dark helmets give 10 neck armour, so you can't get decapitated! Yay!

Another idea is fall damage. If you jump off a cliff with 0 athletics wearing dark armour, you'll die. If a warhorse falls off a cliff, it dies, no matter if it's spirited or lame. If you have maxed your Riding skill, which could be changed to 9, means that your horse has a 10% chance of dying when falling off a moderately sized cliff. If it's higher that x ft, it'll die anyway! The same with athletics, maxed athletics means you only have 10% chance of dying, unless your encumberance is 30 and the cliff is x ft high.

I know, how about you can use a bow for melee, and you can through your sword? Your sword throwing skill is defined by Power Throw and your throwing proficiency. I suppose there isn't much to say about this.

Phew, I'm all idea'ed out!

 

[Orion]

lol... throw an expensive sword, that was not designed for throwing, that would probably be heavy-ish and hard to throw, and would not travel more than 50 feet? My oh my, sounds like a waste of money to me. You don't see knights throwing around their expensive toys, now do you?

Pikemen just thrust at whatever comes their way, safe behind a wall of pointy things.

lol i like that... that's goin in my sig.