SP - Battles & Sieges Sieges...

[Miila]

I know it's been said many times before... but sieges need a rework. Badly.

AI Lords in command of siege attacks always seem to disperse troops in the least effective way possible.

And when I actually have command, my troops don't listen to my commands anyway, not that it would matter since they get randomly dispersed into 2-3 random groups of unrelated troops with no hope of being maneuvered and used effectively anyway.

And my AI troops on siege equipment just aim randomly, switching between defenses on walls and walls and random enemies on the wall... I built two trebuchets to break down a wall and my troops are firing it randomly, maybe or maybe not actually hitting anything, but almost never a wall, all while 2-3 troops at a time are running off (despite me telling them all to hold position) to raise the ladders and try to climb the walls in a suicide charge (since against any well-garrisoned town or castle, that's all the ladders are without being able to organize archers to help clear the wall during the approach). This is all, of course, assuming my troops happen to even choose to man the siege equipment in the first place, instead of just all charging on the walls to abuse the ladders no matter where I order them to go.

On that note, I love that when I command them to charge, they'll run up to the wall and raise the ladders, but then stand there for about a minute with arrows raining down on them before actually thinking to start CLIMBING the ladders they just raised. But if they raise the ladders and then I command them to step back and hold a shield wall while other siege equipment is approaching (since they decided this is a suicide run), they all rush to climb the ladders like their life depends on it... which it certainly does not.

Positioning troops before beginning the assault is useless because they all just run to their random, nonsense AI-chosen spots as soon as you begin the battle, and you being on the ground, you can't command them back to their positions in a timely matter, not that it would matter since if you told them to hold a position they would all take a lap or two around the entire settlement before finding their way back to the position they started the battle in anyway.

I shouldn't have to micromanage my timing BEFORE EVEN BEGINNING THE ASSAULT to avoid the siege equipment I spent in-game days building to be wiped out in the blink of an eye by the settlement's defenses, while also killing some of my troops in the process.

...and that's enough rambling. I want to say that I like some of the IDEAS for the siege improvements in Bannerlord over Warband. But currently they need a lot of work before sieges are to be anything less than a major headache. I'll leave the sieges to the NPC lords for now, and instead spend my time hunting down the enemy on the field.

 

[Yangbang]

100% feel you man. I'm playing on 1.4.1 and during my sieges, its head racking seeing my troops raise ladders...and then awkwardly just climb 1 of the 2 they raised up. While also climbing at inconsistent rates, leading them to a slow awaiting suicide.

I too tried to position my guys in a particular fashion, only to start the siege and have them all run back to where they initially started.

Lastly, I was walking along side my battering ram, and the AI had 2 catapults raining boulders on it. Raining on it like perfect shots each time. I legit was like "well thats a fking wrap, lets go home guys".

Their is so much room for features and action in these sieges. I pray for the best that TW can do. It can really be something epic!

 

[EternalHeathen]

I've definitely seen some rough stuff siege wise in 1.4.1. My first siege in an army, of course the commander used ladders and a ram. I got knocked out early so was able to watch things. Left side ladders the ai kinda sorta used both, but a few minutes in one ladder was full and the top guy wouldn't drop to the wall. So those troops stayed that way for remainder of siege. Right side ladders, ai used one, ignored the other entirely. Gatehouse, the ram broke the outer gate, troops filled up the gatehouse, all watching one guy hack at the inner gate. Only reason any of those troops got in to fight is a few troops from the ladders would make it to the inner gate, the defenders would let them open it, then close it.

Having actual control over formation setup and having troops respond to our commands would definitely help with overcoming some of these, likely still path finding, issues.

 

[MinhTien]

Siege AI is so bad in 1.4.1 right now, I have been taking manual command with F6 and go back to Warband siege offense tactic:

1. Infantries hold shieldwall. Fun fact: even if you order them to HOLD position, some troops will still run toward the wall to raise the ladders. There is no stopping them.
2. Archers stand behind infantries and keep shooting until they are out of arrows, which is a long time since they can pick up more arrows now.
3. Everyone charge, since at this point the enemy force should have taken heavy casualties and provide little resistant.
4. Claw my eyes out as my troops failed to use the ladders.
5. Climb up the ladder and open the gate myself.

With this I literally cut my casualties in half or even less.

Then the AI commander pull this and wreck my tactic. Can't position my troops if melee and range are all mixed together!

 

[c4ifford]

I just did some testing on this some keypoints I found:

* AI randomly assigns a group to a specific siege engine if placed on the field, of that group half a dozen men or so are in a position to man it and move it. If you order that assigned group to stop the group will listen to your command but the men currently pushing the siege engine will move it forward till it reaches it's designed spot. After that they will return the position the rest of their group is at. There doesn't appear to be any way to halt the advancement of towers/rams if they are placed on the field.

* Groups that are pre-assigned to a piece of equipment seem defaulted to or at least heavily favour the method of entry.
Example: If group one was assigned originally by the AI to battering ram, but pulled back and relocated near a siege tower they will still try and enter the castle via the main gate regardless of what is closer to them. Clicking on a group and then directly on a siege tower does nothing.

* Artillery; again the AI randomly selects a handful of men from what appears to be a random troop grouping to fire and man the weapons. There's an icon of gears that appears when you select a troop group and hover over a siege weapon but appears to do nothing when clicked. The men firing will stop and join the rest of their group breaches a wall, however seem to keep firing whilst other groups are breaching resulting in possible friendly fire. I've noticed some instances where if enemy targets are not visible on the wall the artillery stops firing instead of continuing the bombardment.

* Defenders; the AI very seldom takes advantage of all the defensive tactical positions that Taleworlds has created in these castles. They often leave siege weapons unused, the murder holes; especially the ones directly above the inner gate are seldom used. The AI very rarely tries to repel ladders with the forks that are placed nearby. I think we need specific group commands during a siege that tells the troops to man specific defenses instead of clumping together at the pre-determined breach points. Castles were historical designed to be more deadly to the attacker the further they got inside especially the inner courtyards. They were designed to funnel attackers and provide height and tactical superiority to the defender. So much so that a few dozen men could repel a few hundred fairly easily in a lot of historical accounts. Oh and maybe get some hot oil to pour on the defenders?

 

[Delarme]

A few quick notes for 1.4.1.

If you go into a town with an army before it is sieged and the enemy army sieges it, your allied lords that are in your army do not join the defense.

Defenders do not use all defensive siege.

A lot of catapult placements cannot hit anything as a defender due to overshooting the entire field and there doesn't seem to be a way to adjust the power of the shot.

A bounced catapult shot does not do damage, although it still has a lot of velocity.

Defending units constantly fall to their death when defending against siege towers, defending units should be prohibited from getting on the siege tower from the castle wall. Attacking units falling off the siege equipment is totally fine.

Castle garrison/militia for castles that you own do not operate under your command and are uncontrollable.



Now for unimplemented things:
Attacking AI does not react to any sally force in the siege map, you can sally your gate defenders in the path of the ram and stall the ram forever (attacking AI sends units 6 at a time to move the ram and they can get mowed down before they reach the ram and the AI wont clear the blocking troops. If the attacking army also does not have siege towers, an attack can be forestalled for a long time with this tactic as the ladders will not be used unless the ram reaches the gate, or if the ram is destroyed.

Commands for sieges seems entirely unimplemented, you cannot order units to use siege, defend the walls etc.

 

[CzeReptile]

+1 on this.
Unit behaviour is broken, siege weapons are positioned so well they can hit looters on the next two maps outside, but not the troops coming to you. Archers are utterly bimbo, why would they even HIDE behind something. No, stand in the open and get shot. Infantry stands OUTSIDE the gate and let themselves be surrounded. No need to use the arc or positioning, stand and wait to die. Units falling off walls, ladders, towers.

Also why are defenders so bent on climbing my equipment down? I never get that.
We need fixes for it all.