Holger Danske
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What about having siege in the game?? I would be cool to assult or defend a city!!
Siege??
- Thread starter Holger Danske
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There aren't currently any cities to assault or defend.
I think this is a bad idea.
I think this is a bad idea.
Gilglaurad
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Strange, what are theese little stonethingies on the map? Dollhouses? 
No. They're graphical representations of cities that don't actually physically exist yet in anything other than name. Zendar is the only town you can move around in, apark from the Keep. What do you want to do, have a siege battle on the world map?
Eird-Way
Regular
It's a good idea, but it's a bad idea to try and implement in the game, which is what I think you mean. I think it should wait for the sequel.
I would love to see the war actually happening, but I think it would be fine for a battle to take place right outside the town for it to be conquered.
It's still possible that the game will not have fully-rendered towns, which I think would be a good idea unless they can be created very quickly and easily (i.e. randomly and then a few touiches added).
Also, the battles just aren't big enough for this sort of thing. I'd like to see the battle sizes increased if possible, performance of course being the issue. The game runs extremely well for me, and I wish I could set the battle size much higher, but then if we implemented siege battles it would be stupid for players on low settings to storm a town with four guys.
I definitely think stuff like this should wait for the sequel.
I would love to see the war actually happening, but I think it would be fine for a battle to take place right outside the town for it to be conquered.
It's still possible that the game will not have fully-rendered towns, which I think would be a good idea unless they can be created very quickly and easily (i.e. randomly and then a few touiches added).
Also, the battles just aren't big enough for this sort of thing. I'd like to see the battle sizes increased if possible, performance of course being the issue. The game runs extremely well for me, and I wish I could set the battle size much higher, but then if we implemented siege battles it would be stupid for players on low settings to storm a town with four guys.
I definitely think stuff like this should wait for the sequel.
Gilglaurad
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Now *obviously* Siege warfare would be added after the town maps are made - I haven't seen a "Any suggestion being made should be implementable immediatley"-rule
And yes, the towns exist - you can go to the Ruling noble, you can go to their smithies, taverns and merchants - the maps and the background/individuality are still missing, but the towns themself are already there.
And yes, the towns exist - you can go to the Ruling noble, you can go to their smithies, taverns and merchants - the maps and the background/individuality are still missing, but the towns themself are already there.
Captain Black
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You know, there was a game that did siege engines in a way that might be ok here. Defender of the Crown.
The way it worked was, there were a certain number of troops within the city walls. You were outside with your catapult or whatever trebuche etc., you lobbed in shots to break the walls and or kill the troops and hurt morale within. The effect was the resulting battle outside the walls had fewer opposing troops, depending on how well you aimed your shots.
It was more of a mini game really but it worked in with in the larger concept of attacking the fortified city. And it had a real impact on wether you won the battle or not.
C.
The way it worked was, there were a certain number of troops within the city walls. You were outside with your catapult or whatever trebuche etc., you lobbed in shots to break the walls and or kill the troops and hurt morale within. The effect was the resulting battle outside the walls had fewer opposing troops, depending on how well you aimed your shots.
It was more of a mini game really but it worked in with in the larger concept of attacking the fortified city. And it had a real impact on wether you won the battle or not.
C.
Gilglaurad said:Now *obviously* Siege warfare would be added after the town maps are made - I haven't seen a "Any suggestion being made should be implementable immediatley"-rule
And yes, the towns exist - you can go to the Ruling noble, you can go to their smithies, taverns and merchants - the maps and the background/individuality are still missing, but the towns themself are already there.
And as I said in the last "Siege weapons" suggestion thread, I'm sure dragging around the parts and then assembling them outside an enemy town will do wonders for your travelling speed, tactical advantage, etc.
Or are people seriously considering dragging around functional, built siege weapons like catapults? I've got a good idea - you should be able to carry these siege weapons around in your inventory, that way if the enemy destroys one, you can run back to your spawning point to fetch another. And the ammo for them, too.
(In all fairness, I think the possibility of siege would be a good idea for a follow-up game, as M&B seems to be successful so far. But the game is actually called "Mount & Blade", not "Mount and Blade and lay waste to your enemy's town in a gripping Siege". [A siege, BTW, is a long and drawn out affair. Very few people are going to want to sit around in the game's equivalent of several days, weeks or months, flinging rocks at buildings. The game has a faster, more combat-intensive pace than that, and it doesn't deserve to deteriorate into a rock-flinging contest.])
Vinz Klortho
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That sound similar to the effect that shooting cannon into enemy ships/forts had in Pirates!
Gilglaurad
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Well, i haven't seen any mentioning of Bows in the title, either, and I still can put arrows into my enemies eyes 
.
Good point about the siege weapons, I agree that dragging around working siege engines is *really* unpractical, but while it would certainly lower your speed quiete a bit I think it is possible to transport the parts (on a horse cart if necessary) . Also, there are always ladders and rams - which aren't that problematic. - Besides, if you had enough Siege Engineers, lumberjacks and so on you wouldn't have to take 9/10 of the parts anyway...
You would march to the city, and then begin besieging it... building up the siege engines you carried along (which would take maybe a day) and stoping anyone who tries to enter or leave. If you didn't brought any with you (or prefare not to use them), the town would resist maybe 5 days, until it either surrenders or sends it garrison out to try to lift the siege in a last-ditch effort. During the whole time parties from the outside would try to lift the siege or at least break through it with some supplies. (depending on how important the city is, what forces are available, and so on, the attacks would range from 2-3 attacks during the whole siege in case of rateh rather unimportant settlements, to 3-4 heavy attacks per day inc ase of the capital). If you lose to many troops during the siege you can't effectively control all ways into it anymore and you would have to end the siege.
Now, if you had Siege engines you could break an entrance into the city, long before the supplies of the city runs out and forces it garrison out, and would be able to storm the city say on the second-thried day.
If you had ladders or rams you could try to storm the city directly after you had constructed them, but you would have to get them to the walls/gate... and there would be many enemy archers and crossbowmen who you would have to kill/misdirect first. And in case with ladders you wouldn't be able to use mounted troops either. (though, of course, the value of mounted fights in a street fight could be argued anyway)
And yes, I know that real sieges took month... but then, you couldn't turn a peasant into a knight in 5 days either, in RL
.Good point about the siege weapons, I agree that dragging around working siege engines is *really* unpractical, but while it would certainly lower your speed quiete a bit I think it is possible to transport the parts (on a horse cart if necessary) . Also, there are always ladders and rams - which aren't that problematic. - Besides, if you had enough Siege Engineers, lumberjacks and so on you wouldn't have to take 9/10 of the parts anyway...
You would march to the city, and then begin besieging it... building up the siege engines you carried along (which would take maybe a day) and stoping anyone who tries to enter or leave. If you didn't brought any with you (or prefare not to use them), the town would resist maybe 5 days, until it either surrenders or sends it garrison out to try to lift the siege in a last-ditch effort. During the whole time parties from the outside would try to lift the siege or at least break through it with some supplies. (depending on how important the city is, what forces are available, and so on, the attacks would range from 2-3 attacks during the whole siege in case of rateh rather unimportant settlements, to 3-4 heavy attacks per day inc ase of the capital). If you lose to many troops during the siege you can't effectively control all ways into it anymore and you would have to end the siege.
Now, if you had Siege engines you could break an entrance into the city, long before the supplies of the city runs out and forces it garrison out, and would be able to storm the city say on the second-thried day.
If you had ladders or rams you could try to storm the city directly after you had constructed them, but you would have to get them to the walls/gate... and there would be many enemy archers and crossbowmen who you would have to kill/misdirect first. And in case with ladders you wouldn't be able to use mounted troops either. (though, of course, the value of mounted fights in a street fight could be argued anyway
)And yes, I know that real sieges took month... but then, you couldn't turn a peasant into a knight in 5 days either, in RL
[P]aradox said:
Nobody except Marc Anthony, in his attempted attack on Parthia that ultimately resulted in his overwhelming defeat and almost caused him to take his own life after losing several legions in the attempt.
Though I guess having to escort/protect siege engineers and carpenters (for want of a better word) to wherever you want to siege is marginally better than dragging siege equipment with you. Though there had better be a lot of wood when you get there.
GreenKnight
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Okay, you said it. There's no need to worry about your own party being slowed down by taking the seige stuff yourself. It can work just like a caravan. You'd have the wagons and whatnot carrying it, the engineers to construct the weapons, and some troops protecting them. Your party just has to provide extra protection while its enroute to the enemy city, intercepting whoever tries to attack the seige party.
Saladin
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Sieging would be a wonderful idea if it could be properly implemented, though I don't believe it is at all possible. The point about dragging equipment around is silly. Even if you did drag equipment around like that(which you never would) it wouldn't be a big deal. Nor would protecting it. The only real problems would be coding in AI to defend, getting walls to work, and getting ladders and siege towers working without massive armies. Basically, M&B is very limited until massive armies can be on the field.
GreenKnight
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What if you played only a very limited part in the siege? Let all the NPC troops set up and maintain the siege. But if and when they manage to make a breach, it would fall to you and your men to storm it on foot. I think it'd be pretty intense.
GreenKnight
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Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think it could work. There would be the occasional siege, but right up until you assault the breach, you'd serve in a support role, either relating to attack or defense. In either case, you'd learn of it by messenger. Wherever you are on the map, you'd be sought out by the king or count's fastest rider. He'd have a map speed of 12 or something, so even if you were on your own, on a fast horse and with 8 points in riding, he'd catch up to you, and begin one of the following exchanges (Well, except fill in your own character's name.):
1.) "Halla Hardrada! I bring grave tidings! Halmar is beseiged! Lord Camechaw calls for aid!"
"And Halla Hardrada shall answer!"
2.) "Halla Hardrada! I bring word from Halmar. Lord Camechaw requests your immediate presence."
"Then he shall have it."
In the first case, obviously, the Swadians are trying to take the city, and it's up to you to break the siege. Depending on how the war's going, maybe you'll have assistance, or maybe not. If and when you manage to make a big enough dent in the attacking force, a Vaegir war party will emerge from the city, and join you in battle. In the case of the second message, it's the other way around. Maybe the Vaegirs are planning to try and take Veluca, and they want you to protect the supply train carrying some of their siege equipment. Once you arrive, the Vaegirs will set up shop around the city, and you'll have to help stop any attempt by the Swadian army to lift the siege. Eventually, the Vaegirs will make a breach. If necessary, you'll make a brief stop at the nearest Vaegir town to fill your depelted ranks with footmen, and into the meat grinder you go!
1.) "Halla Hardrada! I bring grave tidings! Halmar is beseiged! Lord Camechaw calls for aid!"
"And Halla Hardrada shall answer!"
2.) "Halla Hardrada! I bring word from Halmar. Lord Camechaw requests your immediate presence."
"Then he shall have it."
In the first case, obviously, the Swadians are trying to take the city, and it's up to you to break the siege. Depending on how the war's going, maybe you'll have assistance, or maybe not. If and when you manage to make a big enough dent in the attacking force, a Vaegir war party will emerge from the city, and join you in battle. In the case of the second message, it's the other way around. Maybe the Vaegirs are planning to try and take Veluca, and they want you to protect the supply train carrying some of their siege equipment. Once you arrive, the Vaegirs will set up shop around the city, and you'll have to help stop any attempt by the Swadian army to lift the siege. Eventually, the Vaegirs will make a breach. If necessary, you'll make a brief stop at the nearest Vaegir town to fill your depelted ranks with footmen, and into the meat grinder you go!
Kynes
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Some siege element to the combat would be a terrific idea.
I think people are stumbling over the word siege here. You don't need some massive campaign of attrition against a town or city to make a'siege' just some sort of small scale capture and defend system with a small fortification (think a few buildings, a palisade and a guard tower).
It'd make for a great change from the skirmish-style combat of the game as it stands and just generally make things more interesting.
I think people are stumbling over the word siege here. You don't need some massive campaign of attrition against a town or city to make a'siege' just some sort of small scale capture and defend system with a small fortification (think a few buildings, a palisade and a guard tower).
It'd make for a great change from the skirmish-style combat of the game as it stands and just generally make things more interesting.
duc
Recruit
Seige, how about raids?
It would seem more apropriate to the size of our party if instead of attacking a city we had raids against vilages. To start with armagar could implement them as a random quest from a noble: "Go to $foo near Rievacheg and burn it to the ground", in my mind the mechanism would be something like this:
Location randomised.
Flatish map, randomly placed cottages and buildings.
Using a building when close to it would set it on fire.
Victory would be when all the buldings were burning.
Enemy troops could put out a building if given enough time.
What do you think?
It would seem more apropriate to the size of our party if instead of attacking a city we had raids against vilages. To start with armagar could implement them as a random quest from a noble: "Go to $foo near Rievacheg and burn it to the ground", in my mind the mechanism would be something like this:
Location randomised.
Flatish map, randomly placed cottages and buildings.
Using a building when close to it would set it on fire.
Victory would be when all the buldings were burning.
Enemy troops could put out a building if given enough time.
What do you think?
