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Siege retreat - dead realism

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Norator

Recruit
Do you think it is normal for a player to retreat an infinite number of times while defending a castle?
I simulated a situation where I with 100 archers pushed back 1.5k army, just shooting while they approached the walls, and then retreated and did it again and again until victory! From my point is total abuse and it making dead the defence gameplay.
 

kreamy

Sergeant
Do you think it is normal for a player to retreat an infinite number of times while defending a castle?
I simulated a situation where I with 100 archers pushed back 1.5k army, just shooting while they approached the walls, and then retreated and did it again and again until victory! From my point is total abuse and it making dead the defence gameplay.
so sick. thanks for the tip. im gonna use it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
It would be cool if retreating during a siege defense would take you to a keep fight on the defending side and if won it would break the enemy siege and they would have to do it again or leave if battered enough.

Would be a good way to get time until a relief force arrived for example.
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
It would be cool if retreating during a siege defense would take you to a keep fight on the defending side and if won it would break the enemy siege and they would have to do it again or leave if battered enough.

Would be a good way to get time until a relief force arrived for example.
I agree, I think this is the correct way to stop this exploit. Or you know they could always make a retreat end up in a loss for the player with all troops captured.
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
I use this constantly with horse archers in an open field.
You can use it with just plain archers in open field. It's a stupid exploit that TW needs to get rid of. I remember in Warband you could reset the map from a choice of 3 but once you made contact with the enemy you couldn't reset. Idk why it's not that way in Bannerlord.
 
I had no idea you could retreat from a siege defense. :lol: :lol: :lol: I love this game.

I agree, I think this is the correct way to stop this exploit. Or you know they could always make a retreat end up in a loss for the player with all troops captured.

Why even include the retreat button then if its just an instant loss button? A better solution in my eyes is to make it so that after you retreat, the enemy spawns on your walls and you have to attack from the streets. No siege weapons or anything, all gates open.
 

Antaeus

Sergeant at Arms
You can use it with just plain archers in open field. It's a stupid exploit that TW needs to get rid of. I remember in Warband you could reset the map from a choice of 3 but once you made contact with the enemy you couldn't reset. Idk why it's not that way in Bannerlord.

The trouble I have with this scenario, is that your have no access to logistics. In a real world scenario on a battlefield, you could have a baggage train or storage depots and runners going back and forth, or your archers could take as many arrows as their deployment might allow rather than a single quiver. Or you could retreat them behind the infantry line to rest and replenish supplies... etc.

In game there is no way to manage these real world logistic issues, other than to retreat.

For those of us who limit the numbers of men in the field at once, it means there is a disadvantage in the mechanics of the game to running with a high archer load - your archers kill off 200 enemies, then run out of arrows, then your enemy is reinforced with archers, and you have no answer - the green wall turns red - when in the real world I'd have 50 squires or slaves running a loop back to the train.
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
The trouble I have with this scenario, is that your have no access to logistics. In a real world scenario on a battlefield, you could have a baggage train or storage depots and runners going back and forth, or your archers could take as many arrows as their deployment might allow rather than a single quiver. Or you could retreat them behind the infantry line to rest and replenish supplies... etc.

In game there is no way to manage these real world logistic issues, other than to retreat.

For those of us who limit the numbers of men in the field at once, it means there is a disadvantage in the mechanics of the game to running with a high archer load - your archers kill off 200 enemies, then run out of arrows, then your enemy is reinforced with archers, and you have no answer - the green wall turns red - when in the real world I'd have 50 squires or slaves running a loop back to the train.
Unfortunately it's the limitations of the game. That's why a balance army should be preferable so that once your archers run out of ammo you're not sol and stuck with archers who are forced to melee.
 
I was about to complain about this very situation. I found it completely by accident and decided to put it to its best sue by spamming boulder throws onto the clusters of foes behind siege towers and rams. So far I've leveled up 3 times.
I had no idea you could retreat from a siege defense. :lol: :lol: :lol: I love this game.



Why even include the retreat button then if its just an instant loss button? A better solution in my eyes is to make it so that after you retreat, the enemy spawns on your walls and you have to attack from the streets. No siege weapons or anything, all gates open.
The point of it is that it would take you into the inner section of the fort. Right now if you siege someone else you will have to fight in a second scene inside the halls and rooms of the main fort building if any enemies routed.

Retreating shouldnt be a costless move, though there's a simple fix.
You know how when you're confronted with raiders or attempting to enter a sieged settlement you can sacrifice a small number of troops to get away/ get in respectively? Apply the exact same penalty to retreats and it will be enough.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
You can use it with just plain archers in open field. It's a stupid exploit that TW needs to get rid of. I remember in Warband you could reset the map from a choice of 3 but once you made contact with the enemy you couldn't reset. Idk why it's not that way in Bannerlord.
In warband you could still retreat without penalty if you moved far out of combat, like opposite end of the map.... not that it happened much in warband because the units where much better... but that's another story. I used it in some mods that were harder though, I would Cav slam the enemy sides (of much bigger parties) and then ride away and retreat to re-set troop damage and wear down much larger forces. I think this would be good for Bannerlord to be able to retreat when really out of combat range, but the ninja vanish is obviously an oversight. A way to re-fill arrows for troops would cut down on players retreating a lot too.

Unfortunately it's the limitations of the game. That's why a balance army should be preferable so that once your archers run out of ammo you're not sol and stuck with archers who are forced to melee.
Idduno it doesn't seem that hard to just have a little wagon thing like caravans have at the back of the battlefield and a command to make archers visit it a re-fill, you could have the player pay extra for it to simulate extra arrows, could be for Javs and shield too. I mean, I agree we're not getting something like that, but it would be good. I also like to set up spike barriers and stuff too, but...oh ****ing well.

Do you think it is normal for a player to retreat an infinite number of times while defending a castle?
I simulated a situation where I with 100 archers pushed back 1.5k army, just shooting while they approached the walls, and then retreated and did it again and again until victory! From my point is total abuse and it making dead the defence gameplay.
I think the troops positioning and performance in a defensive siege are complete garbage and it's hard to control them. So I don't know how common this exploit is, but it's understandable. How can you respect a battle that's set up so horribly and you can't control it? I always sally out or hit them in the field, it wastes too much time to let them make a siege anyways.

I feel the same way about the frequency of armies and the small maps we have to fight them on and no way to re-fill arrows or do actual hit-n-run attacks to widdle them down without fighting the whole things. If I have to fight an army every other day **** it, I'll retreat and repeat all day because I have zero respect for this part of the game's design. I also hate having an army. I do it for leadership but I always feel like the game enjoyment just goes off a cliff when you become this big slow expensive murder stack. I would much rather just be my party and have actually control over clan parties so they could do other useful things while I fight the way I want to. But if I get into other stuff I want to be able to do I'll be here all night.
 

Maelstrom8

Sergeant
WBWF&SNW
Once this game is more developed 👀 .. uhm, I feel that they should add something where if you retreat more than once or so in the same battle, your troops should lose a chunk of morale at the very least, if not straight up losing some of them as a cost to retreating.
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Idduno it doesn't seem that hard to just have a little wagon thing like caravans have at the back of the battlefield and a command to make archers visit it a re-fill, you could have the player pay extra for it to simulate extra arrows, could be for Javs and shield too. I mean, I agree we're not getting something like that, but it would be good. I also like to set up spike barriers and stuff too, but...oh ****ing well.
Never knew i wanted that before you said it lol

It would be awesome to have an arrow count for ranged troops and a command to go refil, it would favor archers in a defensive playstyle (closer to the wagon) but if you were a bit farther away it would open them for cavalry charge without infantry nearby to support for example.

In the same vein you could add breakable lances and tell cavalry to return to the wagon to resupply after a charge, no need for fancy animations to complicate things, just return to the supply area, wait a few seconds and bam refilled.

Of course this all would only work if battles lasted longer than a minute (thankfully RBM already solved this part)
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Why even include the retreat button then if its just an instant loss button? A better solution in my eyes is to make it so that after you retreat, the enemy spawns on your walls and you have to attack from the streets. No siege weapons or anything, all gates open.
God, I would instantly retreat every single siege just to get my idiot troops off the wall and away from siege weapons.
Unfortunately it's the limitations of the game. That's why a balance army should be preferable so that once your archers run out of ammo you're not sol and stuck with archers who are forced to melee.
High tier archers do fine in melee.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
God, I would instantly retreat every single siege just to get my idiot troops off the wall and away from siege weapons.
Yeah that would work really well to line up ranged to fire on them as they come over the ladders or through the breach, if you actually make choke points (not just stand in the way) then Inf would be more useful too. That's what I wanted to do and it really bothered me that couldn't just put all the ranged on the floor in lines like they should be. Even in WFAS you could do stuff like that.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
One easy way you can fix the exploit yourself is by simply not using it... I know, crazy right?
 

Moton

Knight
One easy way you can fix the exploit yourself is by simply not using it... I know, crazy right?

Yeah this is a funny conversation about people using exploits and want the devs to remove them. Sure they have to be removed in the future but it feels like TW has more pressing issues.
 
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