Should spear thrusts be enabled while blocking with shield?

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panicFire

Regular
So I saw in a recent video made by 'Resonant' about the first mount and blade game and saw that the character automatically places his shield in front while thrusting.
So if both player and AI are able to use spear thrusting animations while blocking with shield in front, wouldn't it make spears a bit more useful?
I think defensive formations such as shieldwall, circle ,square will have some benefit from it,being able to thrust their spears while blocking with shields might make them more useful at holding the enemy back.
What are your thoughts on this?
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
It would be great for battles of the AI, sure, but what about players? Being able to attack and defend at the same time would be imbalanced.
I'm all for buffing spear and shield, since it was the king of the battlefield and it deserves much more love, but balance is still a consideration.
 

havvy

Regular
They need need to fix stab windup and release (for every weapon) phases first. If they added this future in the game it would be useless at this state.
 

MIKA

Sergeant at Arms
Not only spear and shield, with any other one handed weapon you can block and attack simultaneously
 

panicFire

Regular
It would be great for battles of the AI, sure, but what about players? Being able to attack and defend at the same time would be imbalanced.
I'm all for buffing spear and shield, since it was the king of the battlefield and it deserves much more love, but balance is still a consideration.
It could be limited to single player and defensive formations (shieldwall, square) if it is too op. I am not sure how well this can be be balanced for PvP, maybe a movement speed reduction would be good?
I am not that good of a player but from my experience in multiplayer, thrust speed of spears are so slow that its very easy to close gap with them and make them useless
 

Calabanar

Veteran
That sounds like a total revamp of some of the game mechanics that I would rather see assigned to modders.

Right now they should focus on fixing stab windup as release as havvy rightly pointed out.
 
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Clsy

Veteran
WBWF&S
They need need to fix stab windup and release (for every weapon) phases first

my man it is so sad that i have to tell you that TW think it is too OP and they "patched" it on CB

it is a intented design, so sorry no fix for you
 

Aurex

Regular
WB
I think it'd be great to have some kind of "charge" or wind-up attack, an overhead thrust (or a side thrust, depending on the shield in use) like those used historically. Sadly, I think it'd be almost impossible to balance it for multiplayer. So, I would love to have it in single player and would probably not implement it in multiplayer if it was my choice.
(Basically what the guy above me said, but with more words! :grin:)
 

AndrewArt

Sergeant at Arms
I think a way to balance it would be if they halved the attack range, damage, and maybe slightly increase the attack speed, so it would be a quick/lower damage attack, similar to a shield bash but no stun and more damage. It would be a new mechanic, which would be fun to see, and can also keep it pretty weak just because you defend and attack at the same time. Halving the attack in this case sounds like a given to me, since you sacrifice it for defense. This would work for both multiplayer and singleplayer. This is the kind of attack soldiers in shield wall formations should do, also. Also reduce the HP/durability of shields in general, and that would also make throwing weapons more effective against shields.

They implemented crush through, I don't see why not implement more mechanics like this to make combat more diverse than mindlessly spamming attacks always. You can see it clearly in multiplayer in sieges, friendly fire off = mindless spam everywhere, less fun; friendly fire on = people more carefully considering their attacks, way more fun and desirable. More realism/options can be a good thing if implemented right. Something that makes the player actually think about his actions (if I get too close he'll quick attack me, for example. Player would either stay at further range or decide he can block the enemy's attacks and still go aggressive, if he is confident).
 
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panicFire

Regular
I think a way to balance it would be if they halved the attack range, damage, and maybe slightly increase the attack speed, so it would be a quick/lower damage attack, similar to a shield bash but no stun and more damage. It would be a new mechanic, which would be fun to see, and can also keep it pretty weak just because you defend and attack at the same time. Halving the attack in this case sounds like a given to me, since you sacrifice it for defense. This would work for both multiplayer and singleplayer. This is the kind of attack soldiers in shield wall formations should do, also. Also reduce the HP/durability of shields in general, and that would also make throwing weapons more effective against shields.
Yeah , they should probably even change the grip to half length when spear is used with one hand,so that it's both faster and has a shorter attack range.
I think they have already increased the effectiveness of throwing weapons against shield(70% I think) in 1.5.9 but haven't tested it out.
 

vonbalt

Knight at Arms
WBNWVCM&B
This would be awesome if implemented for all weapons when used with a shield, would improve defensive gameplay (shieldwalls for example) and could easily be balanced by making shields less durable so it would be a boost to defensiveness until your shield broke.

Also liked the suggestion to wield spears half length when paired with a shield, they need a buff, any kind of buff that will make them better in fighting because right now spears can barely hit since they are long and the AI can't keep proper distance and they are thrust only which is lowest damage type in the game.
 

Rycon Caldestan

Sergeant at Arms
WBVC
I’d like to see the option to half-haft spears, via the weapon toggle (default “X” button). Shorter and throwable weapons could still toggle to the ranged mode, while longer weapons could be toggled for close ranks (half-hafted grip) vs anti cav/ max distance (rear-hafted grip).

My realistic expectation is that the amazing modding community will be able to accomplish this, but TW will deem it “too complicated” for players, and/or cut into console FPS because bannerlord has to (😓) be developed for consoles...
 

Bluko88

Regular
So I saw in a recent video made by 'Resonant' about the first mount and blade game and saw that the character automatically places his shield in front while thrusting.
So if both player and AI are able to use spear thrusting animations while blocking with shield in front, wouldn't it make spears a bit more useful?
I think defensive formations such as shieldwall, circle ,square will have some benefit from it,being able to thrust their spears while blocking with shields might make them more useful at holding the enemy back.
What are your thoughts on this?
Yeah be nice if while you were blocking you could make a quick short thrust. Would go a long ways to actually making spears a viable foot weapon. Right now it's very laughable how gimped a spear is once you're in kicking range. I've said it before, but spears really are supposed to be defensive weapons. This would go a long way to making them just that.

Still would leave Two-Handed Spears rather lacking. Maybe you should only be able to brace Two-Handed Spears on foot? Seems like a fair trade-off for each style.


Actually being able to make a short thrust attack with any thrust weapon while blocking, would make Shield Wall a more viable formation. Currently really only good for soaking up arrows. Shield Wall really should be better at countering low level troops like Recruits and Looters when they charge. Though this could be a problem for Axe Wielding troops, i.e. Sturgians. So maybe it should just be spears?
 

qwerrecd42

Recruit
I don't know but something needs to happen with spears in general because as soon as an enemy gets within 15 feet of me if I'm using a spear I become useless as all attacks plink off of them for 0 or 1 damage and usually leave me staggered
 

Koshkasa

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
That would be a major combat revamp, and questions would be raised as to why other 1H weapons don't get the same benefit. Technically, IRL you always be protecting yourself with the shield, even when making a thrust/swing with your weapon, and those telegraphed 3-hour windups followed by waiving your shield somewhere to the side wouldn't make sense. Here, however, it ain't supposed to. It's a game. All it has to do is be fun to play around.

And that's definitely not going to be fun in multiplayer, having the opponent turtle behind the shield is annoying enough, allowing them to attack you back at the same time is going to worsen the issue somewhat. In singeplayer, however, I can see that working with certain formations.

#makespearsgreatagain
 

Mushbeast

Knight
Well that dude posted a new shield he found in the game with the notch for spears so I'd assume it's something they've at least thought of. Maybe if the mechanic was limited to these types of shields then you could balance around that, like making the shield itself weaker. Seems like it'd be awesome and would make spears in formation good.

I don't think it'd be necessarily unbalanced for MP either as the spear is extremely lacklustre in it's current state. Shields already break in a few hits from 2handed weapons, and if the mechanic was tied in to the spear-bracing system I think it would be perfectly fine.
 
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