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Should Recruits Change Culture to the Occupying Faction's?
- Thread starter vicwiz007
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Personally i'm not all too much a fan of the cultural troop themselves - as i think the concept is too static.
While a lot of exchange of ideas takes years, i personally think a lot of that has to do with limited experience/equipment/production capability and quite a lot less with 'cultural' heritage. So i'd rather see what you can recruit limited by 'training' and equipment availability than where on the map it is. IF the Ceasar wants he can order his legionnairies to wear polar bear capes... i just don't think he'll easily gather enough of them to actually equip people with it....
While a lot of exchange of ideas takes years, i personally think a lot of that has to do with limited experience/equipment/production capability and quite a lot less with 'cultural' heritage. So i'd rather see what you can recruit limited by 'training' and equipment availability than where on the map it is. IF the Ceasar wants he can order his legionnairies to wear polar bear capes... i just don't think he'll easily gather enough of them to actually equip people with it....
Karl_Magnus
Sergeant
As far as I know TW will make it possible to reequip individual soldiers anyway (or something of that sort)... I don't know what the AI will do with this, but this part shouldn't be much of an issue in this case.
JohannTheFirst
Veteran
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but if you're going for the realism angle voting against a proposal that would give more freedom to shape the player's ability to get whichever troop types they want more easily, then you'd have to be against the current completely unrealistic template to begin with.
(While writing this one of the posters above me made a similar point)
Culture doesn't intrinsically have anything to do with the equipment troops use, which is pretty much the only thing we're concerned with in game.
(While writing this one of the posters above me made a similar point)
Culture doesn't intrinsically have anything to do with the equipment troops use, which is pretty much the only thing we're concerned with in game.
Do you know where they mentioned this, just out of interest?
Karl_Magnus
Sergeant
Hmm... it's an old memory and I might be talking out of my ass, saying this, but I think it was talked about, might have just been players suggestion or something they wanted implement and finally rejected, but I hope not.
I'll try to find something about it and post it here if I can.
And while I agree that cultures aren't so maleable, there should be more of a feeling of occupation and certain mechanics surrounding that concept. Revolts, military occupation, relation differences, etc.
How about this : long-distance recruitment.
Since your clan can have multiple parties, and even caravans, it would make sense to expand those functions to allow your companions to recruit for you in your heartlands, and meet you up at the frontier with freshly recruited national troops. Indeed, I sense the whole recruitment options available to the player will be expanded in the future.
For instance, since villagers spawning from villages now actually carry goods into towns, and recruits are actual "units" now, shared between you and all AI lords, it would make sense to have your castles summon small parties of recruits from it's associated villages from time to time to add to the garrison and train into proper soldiers. From there, companion parties could be tasked to bring troops to you, transfer troops between fiefs, or whatever, really : they sky's the limit with Bannerlord's new system, i doubt they'll limit themselves to Warband's style of running around from village like a beggar deep into the mid-late game.
As for culture conversion, I think it makes sense, and one of the best way to implement it in my opinion would be with the option of adding new characters (therefore recruiters) to conquered villages and towns, a mixture of settlers and governors of sorts, who would offer you troops of your kingdom's culture. They could even have their own quests and everything, so they gradually "open up" their troop offerings the more quests you do for them, though the native characters of a village might hate you for it
I agree, we should have basically the recruiter options from Floris Evolved with someone hiring new recruits and possibly training them.
We can have a kingdom decision voting for that like "vassals will train [insert name] culture troops in their fiefs" and as a side effect we can have negative loyalty among lords belong to different cultures, negative effect for village productions or loss of local militia etc.
Or a completely different system like upon capturing a settlement :
1- "Force your culture on the people" in result of this action we should be able to recruit our faction's troops after sometime like 2 weeks ingame or more, you pick.
We should also get relations hit with the notables of the opposite faction and maybe even decrease in population and production as it will create unrest among the citizens.
Also a high rebellion chance should be present.
2- "Make the population slowly adopt your culture" Similar yet slower version of the above, less hit with relations, more time until we recruit desired troops.
3- "Let the inhabitants keep their cultural traits" Nothing changes, and player/npc can continue to recruit the foreign troops if he/she wants to use them as auxiliary troops.
Or another option could be to take a similar approach to the matter by following total war's religion system.
-Building cultural buildings should change the culture slowly.
-Stationing the desired culture's troops should effect the culture of the town/castle after sometime. Especially if they outnumber the locals.
Or a completely different system like upon capturing a settlement :
1- "Force your culture on the people" in result of this action we should be able to recruit our faction's troops after sometime like 2 weeks ingame or more, you pick.
We should also get relations hit with the notables of the opposite faction and maybe even decrease in population and production as it will create unrest among the citizens.
Also a high rebellion chance should be present.
2- "Make the population slowly adopt your culture" Similar yet slower version of the above, less hit with relations, more time until we recruit desired troops.
3- "Let the inhabitants keep their cultural traits" Nothing changes, and player/npc can continue to recruit the foreign troops if he/she wants to use them as auxiliary troops.
Or another option could be to take a similar approach to the matter by following total war's religion system.
-Building cultural buildings should change the culture slowly.
-Stationing the desired culture's troops should effect the culture of the town/castle after sometime. Especially if they outnumber the locals.
Karl_Magnus
Sergeant
Yeah, nevermind. I don't seem to find anything serious about this.
I can wish it's integrated at some point, otherwise there will be mods to do it, I'm sure.
The thing is, we are mixing culture with military equipment/training. I don't see why a battanian recruit couldn't end up functioning as a vlandian or sturgian infantry if given the same equipment. In fact, if you're a vlandian lord, training a battanian recruit all the way up to the final tier doesn't make any sense. You're supposed to know how to train vlandian units, not battanian ones. I think in conquered villages you should get the conqueror's faction recruits, but only recruits, and then any higher tier units only from their original culture (which could be upgraded eventually).
In my opinion, they should stay the same faction's units. This is because a conquering faction usually doesn't kill off all the living people in the fief/city. Although, I do believe that they should increase the conquering factions recruits found in the conquered fief, as it would seem a bit more realistic to me as other people would most likely move there.
Troops shouldn't magically change culture and training. That's goofy and arcade-like, and it would be very disappointing to see.
Take Khuzaits for example. Being a nomadic horse archer is a way of life. Do you think they could just show up in New York -- sorry, Lycaron -- one day and suddenly everyone is riding horses like the best nomads ever were? That's crazy.
Sometimes you end up with multi-ethnic armies when you conquer and sometimes that makes your army stronger because of different talents, or it makes your army weaker because of lack of focus. That's real life. That's interesting gameplay.
This is an interesting idea and a good point, though -- field training and equipping troops the same way makes sense. But if this idea is adopted, I think it makes sense that it should be harder/slower to train up your foreign recruits to fight the way that your own army fights. Because sometimes it's just a different way of life.
Maybe not for your first few upgrades, but definitely your high tier ones.
Take Khuzaits for example. Being a nomadic horse archer is a way of life. Do you think they could just show up in New York -- sorry, Lycaron -- one day and suddenly everyone is riding horses like the best nomads ever were? That's crazy.
Sometimes you end up with multi-ethnic armies when you conquer and sometimes that makes your army stronger because of different talents, or it makes your army weaker because of lack of focus. That's real life. That's interesting gameplay.
This is an interesting idea and a good point, though -- field training and equipping troops the same way makes sense. But if this idea is adopted, I think it makes sense that it should be harder/slower to train up your foreign recruits to fight the way that your own army fights. Because sometimes it's just a different way of life.
Maybe not for your first few upgrades, but definitely your high tier ones.
Rbtparker13
Veteran
It should be an option like most people are saying, this is a sandbox. Let me get soldiers of the Vlandians across the map
Theres already mods doing this luckily. Sooner than expected though. Everyone wins. Just search “culture” on the mod nexus youll find them.
Rbtparker13
Veteran
Yeah. Modders are amazing
Here is the thing. If a general was taking on new recruits to his army with the intent of training them to be a actual part of his army, he going to train and outfit those recruits exactly like he would a recruit from his culture. For example, a Roman Army isn't going to take a on Gauls to be part of the main army isn't going to incorporate their weapons, equipment and fighting styles within its cohorts, rather it is going to train them to function flawlessly within the Roman military doctrine. In essence, these Gaulish recruits would become legionaries simple as that.
Now before someone goes and says different, yes, the roman army took on various foreign troops as auxiliaries. These "auxiliaries" used native weapons and equipment and often even maintained their original fighting formations and styles, however they were independent of the Roman Legions and often used as fodder to weaken an enemy before sending in the true legionaries. They were not incorporated to the Roman regular troops.
That being said, if you wanted to be realistic, you would have it so that anyone you recruit that is tier 1 would actually match the culture of the faction how controls that particular fief. These would represent recruits that were selected to be trained in that factions military doctrine. Anyone unit recruited at Tier 2 and above, would represent a soldier already trained under the conquered cultures fighting styles and would represent recruiting troops to function as Auxiliary units to the main army.
Of course, I doubt this kind of thing will happen and to be blunt, I am kind of on the fence about whether I want to have my fiefs be converted to my culture or not. On one hand, I actually like the idea of a factions army actually being make up mostly of that factions troop tree, not some hodge podge of all types of random troops and wish the game kind of enforced this rule. On the other hand, in my current main campaign, I really love the idea of having the vast majority of my troops be Imperial while incorporating a special "Native Auxiliary" unit of Battanian Archers that I recruited from my conquered fiefs.
Now before someone goes and says different, yes, the roman army took on various foreign troops as auxiliaries. These "auxiliaries" used native weapons and equipment and often even maintained their original fighting formations and styles, however they were independent of the Roman Legions and often used as fodder to weaken an enemy before sending in the true legionaries. They were not incorporated to the Roman regular troops.
That being said, if you wanted to be realistic, you would have it so that anyone you recruit that is tier 1 would actually match the culture of the faction how controls that particular fief. These would represent recruits that were selected to be trained in that factions military doctrine. Anyone unit recruited at Tier 2 and above, would represent a soldier already trained under the conquered cultures fighting styles and would represent recruiting troops to function as Auxiliary units to the main army.
Of course, I doubt this kind of thing will happen and to be blunt, I am kind of on the fence about whether I want to have my fiefs be converted to my culture or not. On one hand, I actually like the idea of a factions army actually being make up mostly of that factions troop tree, not some hodge podge of all types of random troops and wish the game kind of enforced this rule. On the other hand, in my current main campaign, I really love the idea of having the vast majority of my troops be Imperial while incorporating a special "Native Auxiliary" unit of Battanian Archers that I recruited from my conquered fiefs.
Did they briefly change it in one of the past patches? I distinctly remember the northern empire taking the north east most Khuzait town and it and it's villages having empire recruits only. I was mad because I wanted nomads. But in recent games it not the case.
While I totally understand the very valid points about how long cultures take to change in reality and the points about equipment and training vs culture are equally valid, more important for me than both is the fact that because there are more imperial settlements than any other kind covering the entire middle of the map every army I face later into the game is half imperial. I want more variety in my battles.
The world would get pretty boring after a while if all the armies are the same. Though I guess some kind of option in the fief management menu to start a cultural conversion that takes X amount of days would be kind of cool and give players some choice in the matter depending on how they want to play.
