Should Recruits be Buffed?

[BattanianDruid]

So I've been playing a Sturgian campaign and it is going really, really badly. Every battle is either a loss or a Pyrrhic victory and the AI lords keep making incredibly dumb strategic decisions that set themselves up for failure.

This has caused the Sturgians to field armies that are almost entirely composed of tier 1 recruits. People are dying faster than the villages can train up new troops with decent gear. We've also been fighting the Battanians so huge chunks of our armies get torn a part in every battle before the melee can begin.

This seems contributory to the snowballing effect to me. A faction that has received back to back losses eventually runs out of good troops and must rely solely on the most basic units available. This isn't a unique case to Sturgia either as most armies are composed chiefly of tier 1 recruits.

Rather than trying to get more upper tier units into armies why not just make the basic recruit a bit better at defending itself so they have a higher chance of surviving battles? Giving them a basic wooden shield would go a long way to protecting them from arrow fire and would open the recruits up to being able to use the shield wall formation.

 

[Ragemaster9999]

Sturgia units just plain suck. Try a vlandian or battania campaign and its night and day difference

 

[drallim33]

Recruits are supposed to be weak. You're not supposed to have armies of mostly recruits, a healthy army has troops from every tier, with just a small number of recruits, maybe 10-20%. The problems are elsewhere.

 

[Demoulius]

Sturgia units just plain suck. Try a vlandian or battania campaign and its night and day difference

What is bad about Sturgian units? Their shock troopers and veteran units seem like good line units. Beserkers and Ulfhednar seem a little light on armor but theyre 2 handers so thats not uncommon for that kind of units.Their cav seem to be littlly armoured but considering they have thrown javelins I think theyre more intended as harassing units? Dont see anything 'wrong' with their bow units ether :/

Genuine question btw, havent fought them that much and dont recruit their units as im mainly an imperial player atm.

 

[Nokturnel]

What is bad about Sturgian units? Their shock troopers and veteran units seem like good line units. Beserkers and Ulfhednar seem a little light on armor but theyre 2 handers so thats not uncommon for that kind of units.Their cav seem to be littlly armoured but considering they have thrown javelins I think theyre more intended as harassing units? Dont see anything 'wrong' with their bow units ether :/

Genuine question btw, havent fought them that much and dont recruit their units as im mainly an imperial player atm.

The problem lies in their inability to deal with archers, the bad stats on their archers and Calvary and their bad AI to boot. For instance the Shock Troops you mention, they have a shield so you'd think they'd be good against archers right? Nope, when you tell them to shield wall they'll completely unequip their shield and use their 2h Spear whenever an enemy comes with 30 meters of them allowing for them to be ripped to shreds by archers. They don't seem to understand the concept of a shield wall.

Compare their Calvary to any other Calvary in the game and you might notice a problem with their stats (They have about half the stats of other calvary) and their archers are pretty much the same. Where as like Battanian Fians can snipe someone across the map while also holding their own in melee combat. They also lack horse archers so that's also a problem as they're incredibly good atm.

There was a mod on nexus completely dedicated to fixing troop stats but the latest beta build broke it, think they're working on making it work for the newest build though so expect a new one to be posted eventually.

 

[Pejot]

Nope, when you tell them to shield wall they'll completely unequip their shield and use their 2h Spear whenever an enemy comes with 30 meters of them allowing for them to be ripped to shreds by archers. They don't seem to understand the concept of a shield wall.

Actually this happens to all units that have 2h/polearm no matter what faction it is.

 

[Demoulius]

The problem lies in their inability to deal with archers, the bad stats on their archers and Calvary and their bad AI to boot. For instance the Shock Troops you mention, they have a shield so you'd think they'd be good against archers right? Nope, when you tell them to shield wall they'll completely unequip their shield and use their 2h Spear whenever an enemy comes with 30 meters of them allowing for them to be ripped to shreds by archers. They don't seem to understand the concept of a shield wall.

Compare their Calvary to any other Calvary in the game and you might notice a problem with their stats (They have about half the stats of other calvary) and their archers are pretty much the same. Where as like Battanian Fians can snipe someone across the map while also holding their own in melee combat. They also lack horse archers so that's also a problem as they're incredibly good atm.

There was a mod on nexus completely dedicated to fixing troop stats but the latest beta build broke it, think they're working on making it work for the newest build though so expect a new one to be posted eventually.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like a mix of problems then. The problem with the shock troopers sounds like an AI problem coupled with lower then normal stats. Pretty much all tier 5 units have 130 in their weapon statline and their main form of movement statline (mounted or athletics) and these guys are lower for some reason. Oversight or bug maybe?

Their cav dont have lower stats per se but the 'normal' statline of 130. Other armies have mounted units with them as well and only some have ones that are higher. Not counting the 'hero' type units that just about each faction has with higher stats who often go over the 200 mark.

I play mostly with empire units and those all have the 130 max statline as well with only the elite cav having higher stats. Empire haivng no real focus in their tech tree to me seems like it makes sense as they can bring everything but have no focus. I think its abit weird that another faction would have no special elite unit

But considering I tend to be able to keep my units alive I dont face the same problems as the snowballed AI does. I think the problem is mostly that and not so much of a faction thing?

 

[Caps]

the problem is that there is no passive exp gain to level recruits quickly (in the original or warband you could sit with 100 recruits for 2 days and all have them level up) In bannerlord you would need to wait endless

 

[BattanianDruid]

Recruits are supposed to be weak. You're not supposed to have armies of mostly recruits, a healthy army has troops from every tier, with just a small number of recruits, maybe 10-20%. The problems are elsewhere.

I don't know if I agree with that. Recruits are the lowest tier of troop and the most common. Logically they'd make up the bulk of any army outside a force that has seen non-stop victories as any losses would be replaced by new recruits. On top of that the only way to get better troops (aside from the villages training them up) is for recruits to survive battles and level up.

It seems to me that it'd be near impossible to make recruits a minority in a lord's army without just letting them artificially spawn higher tier troops into their forces.

So why not make them somewhat usable? Give them a shield and the number of recruits who survive each battle goes up which in turn means more of them make it to tier 2 which creates stronger armies.

 

[Pt.C]

I wouldn't put advanced Tier naked 2h dumbass in my army, and Sturgian died after spending three years in the archives of most players.
To be honest, the usefulness of these Tier5 2h naked wolf-skin dunces is far less than that of the heavily armored dual wield warriors and double standard warriors.

 

[anton97]

I think recruits are fine as is, the problem lies with the majority of armies seemingly being made up of them. Mowing down hundreds of unshielded recruits battle after battle is kind of ridiculous.

 

[enemy_man]

I just think the recruits look incredibly silly with their colored shirts and swords. I would like them to have spears and a crappy shield or something like that.

 

[BattanianDruid]

I just think the recruits look incredibly silly with their colored shirts and swords. I would like them to have spears and a crappy shield or something like that.

This is another concern. Realistically if a king can afford to outfit his fresh recruits with swords he can probably afford to give them some cheap wooden shields so they don't get mowed down and end up routing before they ever reach the enemy line.

 

[Pejot]

This is another concern. Realistically if a king can afford to outfit his fresh recruits with swords he can probably afford to give them some cheap wooden shields so they don't get mowed down and end up routing before they ever reach the enemy line.

Hmm Vlandian and Aserai have spears in 1.2. Imoerials too if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Kräuterbutterlord]

I agree, medieval drafted soldiers were most of the time given basic equipment. There is just no reason to see guys in plain shirts (some carrying farming tools) and no helmets running around on a battlefield. They should be given basic equipment: a cheap helmet, a spear, and a shield.
That would set a basic and realistic standard, especially when you take into a count that the Village Militias (who mainly exist to protect the law and keep looters away) in this game are way better equipment then recruits for an army supposed to fight field battles.

 

[BattanianDruid]

Hmm Vlandian and Aserai have spears in 1.2. Imoerials too if I'm not mistaken.

Even then basic wooden shields aren't a big investment. Watching huge numbers of human beings marching to their inevitable doom because they brought absolutely no protection is kind of odd from an immersion stand point. These are recruits. Not peasant militia.

At the very least you'd expect to see a percentage of them with a shield. Then you could throw up a shield wall and have the ones without shields take cover behind the ones that do.

 

[stevehoos]

Recruits should have shields, not level 5 but enough to protect themselves. Everyone had them. The battles last 3 minutes because because most of the armies are running around like exposed. Most casualties took place when men retreated in battles, this game needs some work.

 

[Pejot]

Even then basic wooden shields aren't a big investment. Watching huge numbers of human beings marching to their inevitable doom because they brought absolutely no protection is kind of odd from an immersion stand point. These are recruits. Not peasant militia.

At the very least you'd expect to see a percentage of them with a shield. Then you could throw up a shield wall and have the ones without shields take cover behind the ones that do.

Sure why not.
The problem is autocalc is not giving a **** about equipment so shield or no they will still die the same in all battles AI Vs AI.
As for players battles I tested it making a mod to give basic shields to all T1, T2 infantry with one handed focus and it actually made things worse cause of broken fighting mechanics. They were blocking more of their own attacks.
Maybe it could work if they fix the AI for attacking while in tight formations.

 

[Pt.C]

I think we can give the tier 1-3 recruits a random low order equipment system, after all, the recruits of ancient times were anything but regular.
Except for special arms and noble recruits.

 

[King Yngvar]

Giving shields to recruits would be a good idea. Higher tier inf should get a buff by making armor work.