shields (variety is good right?)

[Oddball_E8]

ok, so far we have the standard hoplite-type shield (i forget what its called in game) and the thracian peltast style shield right?

well how about some more shields?

like this one (dont know what its called, and ive only found good pictures of it from various RTW mods, but they are from RTR or EB wich both claim historical accuracy)
EDIT: apparantly its called the "pelte"... used at least in the 3rd century BC

隐藏

ok, so i found one reference picture wich isnt from RTW, but it does seem to depict a greek peltast from 3rd century BC (even though he seems roman to me)...

another one is just a small round shield made out of hide stretched over thin wood or a wicker base


EDIT: after checking around a bit, it seems all sorts of shields used by peltasts were called "pelte" it basically seems to mean "small shield"...

 

[Shiro]

I believe this shield was called the "thureos" or something...

 

[Merlkir]

Thureos indeed, not really fitting the PW timeframe.

 

[Oddball_E8]

Thureos indeed, not really fitting the PW timeframe.

well that argument is not all that valid in my book... alot of stuff that is in TPW would have to go if you followed that motto... 

 

[Kiivit]

Don't argue with Merlkir, he knows everything .

 

[Merlkir]

It's not like..corinthian helmet - old and slightly anachronistic (but possibly usable). It's like...hellenistic. 100 years and more later.

 

[TYR]

It's not like..corinthian helmet - old and slightly anachronistic (but possibly usable). It's like...hellenistic. 100 years and more later.

We do not use hellenistic stuff in the mod, if it is equipment or architecture. We talked about that and unless Lynores changes his mind none of these will be used.
It is okay however to use older stuff for a good reason. Today we think in exact shapes, everything has a start and a end. This is most likely not the chase,
especially back in the ancient times. I give you an example: The hoplite gear was often passed onto the son, it was very expensive to buy such equipment,
in later times the citystates couldnt field enough hoplites anymore because it was too expensive. So a hoplite gear in good shape even it was 50 years old and
probably already worn by your grandfather is a valuable thing. Therefor we may assume that older equipment was stil in use while newer standards where already developed.
This applys for architecture as well. Another funny example today: Austria used the Saab Draken fighterplanes until 2005 although they are outdated by any means, we where
just too greedy to buy new planes. Apply that to a small and poor citystate and you may imagine how their equipment looked like compared to athens or sparta.

 

[Merlkir]

yeah, that's exactly what I meant.

 

[Kiivit]

I learn so much stuff on these boards

 

[Oddball_E8]

and are we sure that design of shield didnt exist in say thracian territories?
they were somewhat influenced by celtic and germanic tribes in the north wich used those shields too...


and dont forget about the little shield hehe... just saying... not all about the big shield...

(ps. found loads of references to shields of the same basic shape and size of the big one, but without the "bump and line" in the middle... ie. just animal skin stretched over a frame á la the famous zulu warriors shields... but i didnt include them cos i think theyre ugly  )

 

[CinuzIta]

why do not include somethin' as this...some archeologist says that this kind of shiel was started to be used at hte battle of leuttra...that is only 30 years later the end of the peloponnesian war..

http://gallery.kitmaker.net/data/15938/7501.jpg

 

[Cirdan]

The Thureos was originally of Celtic design and is made out of what is basically plywood, framed with iron, faced canvas covered with leather or rawhide, and strengthened with an umbo--the iron boss in the centre. This is a construction entirely alien to the classical Greeks, which is why they only used thureoi after they figured out how the Gauls made them, after the Galatian migration in the third century BCE, and especially after the Aitolians' repulse of the Gauls in 279 BCE. Oval-shaped shields are generally unknown in the Eastern Mediterranean prior to the Galatian migration, although they spread like wildfire afterwards. What were in use were 'tower' shields (possibly the oldest of them all, the Achaemenid spara would be the most famous example from the 5th century), figure-eights (e.g. the Boiotian or the Persian gerron), round shields (the Argive, of course, though wicker targets were ubiquitous among most people's light infantry), and crescent-shaped shield (the pelte you mentioned).

 

[Oddball_E8]

well then how about a few of them then hehe... just some more different shields...
its often the most obvious part of an enemy that you notice...

and if it stands between the ultra-small pelte or the big hoplite shield thats just too little choice...
we need fillers hehe...

 

[Merlkir]

(or you can play Hegemony which has plenty of thureoi and other types of shields.)

 

[Oddball_E8]

true... and anyone else who has a complaint or suggestion could also go play something else...


seriously... remarks like that are not very constructive...

 

[Merlkir]

Well you obviously don't want to play a mod from the Pel. war. You want to see thureoi and all kinds of other stuff that simply didn't exist at that time. Hegemony has that. The solution is simple.

 

[Oddball_E8]

oh jeeez...

ease down will ya?

im just trying to get some variety... i was off by a little on that one shield sure, but are you trying to tell me there was only two kinds of shields at that time?

 

[Merlkir]

in Greece? kinda yes. Heavy infantry used the aspis and everyone else either some kind of pelta, or nothing at all. Oh, the scythians should have some special shields. (and I think they do..)
Greek mods usually "solve" this lack of variety by having many different shield designs (paintings.)

 

[Oddball_E8]

first off, "some kind of pelta" is a nice little statement... the pelta came in different sizes and shapes as far as i know...
as for the thracians having different peltas in game? no... they have the same little crescent moon pelta as everyone else...

 

[Merlkir]

well, the pelta could have variations in shape I guess. More crescentish, more roundish, rectangular...
So yeah, if you want more different peltas - why not.