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I absolutely hate enemies using shields.

As an archer/crossbowman, they'll pull a huge shield from their hip to their face faster than humanly possible, and catch your arrow. You can also aim over the shield at their exposed head but the magical shield still somehow stops it. Same thing when aiming for the legs, which should be the counter for shield-bearers (who btw can't actually see you behind the shield so wouldn't be able to even see the arrow coming), the shield becomes an arrow magnet 90% of the time.

No pila or javelins can seem to penetrate even the worst shield and cause any damage, even when the javelin is entering the character model. Any javelin thrown from the shield side always magically find their way into the shield, even when they're not actively blocking.

How unsatisfying it is when I lead a cavalry charge with a couched lance into infantry, only to hear a pathetic little "donk" sound, do no damage besides charge damaged, then get mobbed. Are you really telling me that a heavily armoured knight galloping full speed with a couched lance was stopped by some random peasant with a thin bit of wood? The shield dude should at the very least be knocked over and have his shield shatter. Another point on cav charges: the charge damage done by horses is pathetic and really needs to be better at knocking over the enemy - at the moment infantry are just taking a whole horse to the face like their girlfriend slapped them and mass cavalry charges aren't causing nearly enough chaos.

When using complex polearms or two-handers, shield are frustrating (especially when fighting multiple enemies at once) because they cover way too much area and can constantly see the sword clip into their arms, head or legs right before I hear the dreaded donk and I apparently do no damage (although I noticed this has gotten a little better recently). Again, when riding full speed on a horse, it's annoying how powerful shields are at protecting against me clotheslining other cavalry, considering we just collided at full speed and nothing happened.

When I'm fighting as shield infantry, it's not even fun. The shield is obviously very useful against archers, but it's also just a "click to defend everything" button, as long as you don't go left/right the wrong way (up and down blocking blocks pretty much everything). I also can't use my 1H shortsword properly in the shield wall because the stab animation is so weak (it gets blocked by the guy on your right because of the weird angle the thrust originates from). The thrust should come much quicker and straighter, sort of like the kick.

In general the melee suffers because weapons are swung waaaayy too slow (especially the spears and thrusting in general), but it also makes the shield's catch all ability so much stronger as well as a boring playstyle. I would like to see faster weapons and less god-like shields. Perhaps adding in some sidestepping could help provide a way to outmanoeuvre the shield-bearer as well as make the infantry gameplay more exciting and dynamic.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Are you really telling me that a heavily armoured knight galloping full speed with a couched lance was stopped by some random peasant with a thin bit of wood?
No, the game is telling you it doesn't want heavy cavalry to casually massacre all infantry, ever.
 

vonbalt

Knight at Arms
WBNWVCM&B
On one hand i agree with you, they should do away with magic shields (as many mods already did) making it only defend exactly the size of it's model, shields should also break a bit more easily with javelins/pilla being one or two hits to destroy the shield at maximum (to simulate how they would make shield almost useless during a fight after their stuck in the planks).

On the other hand i would like them to make the blocking directions a bit more prominent to open the block a bit more and with this allow troops to thrust/swing around their shields while blocking.

No one trained to use shields in combat would open their guard to strike 99,9% of times like they do in the game, they would use the shield to bash, to confuse the enemy moving it and to strike around it.

This could easily be attached to blocking direction to keep with the game mechanics, you are blocking to your right to you can swing from your left, blocking up thrust down and vice versa.

this would make shielded infantry better at fighting and also be a bit more realistic, would tremendously help spearwalls aswell (spear desperately needs a buff, any buff really)

they wouldn't be able to keep up with this for long if the shields could break a bit more easily and would also open them a bit to counters like you are blocking from your left trying to swing from the right but this leaves your right side a bit more exposed to an enemy who could potentially hit you from there (would block more than completely without any shield of course but wouldn't be 100%)
 
No, the game is telling you it doesn't want heavy cavalry to casually massacre all infantry, ever.
Shields are not the way to do this though.

Pikes and dense formations should be the cavalry counter (Make Vlandian Pikemen Great Again!), not Bob and his glorified plank. The introduction of spear bracing is a promising start towards making pikes a viable counter against cavalry charges.

I never said they had to be lethal, but full-speed cavalry charges are nowhere near disruptive enough. If me and the bois are plowing throwing a 3-man deep line, I'm expecting to cause some disruption due to simple physics (I mean, have you ever actually seen a thorough-bred horse in person? They're absolute units). Give me knockovers, shields shattering (if using couched lances), actual fatalities aren't needed (I think 'The King' has a scene where an infantry line is charged to give an idea of the effect I'm talking about). This is more about rewarding the player's tactics and timing; for example, when I co-ordinate a cavalry charge to hit the flank of the enemy infantry just before the shieldwalls meet, the charge is helping your infantry win while minimising losses rather than cav>everything.

Obviously this effect would have to graded by speed so cav can't just flatten entire square formations or casually trot through the enemy. Would be a good idea to make the knock-over effect apply to friendly troops too as physics takes no sides and would add an element of punishment to tactical mistakes. But at the moment shields blocking lances the way they do is flat out ridiculous.

On foot as well, strong blows from polearms and two-handers should cause more stun against shields, at least when the shield isn't 100% blocking in that direction, instead of acting exactly the same as it would against a knife.
 
On one hand i agree with you, they should do away with magic shields (as many mods already did) making it only defend exactly the size of it's model, shields should also break a bit more easily with javelins/pilla being one or two hits to destroy the shield at maximum (to simulate how they would make shield almost useless during a fight after their stuck in the planks).

On the other hand i would like them to make the blocking directions a bit more prominent to open the block a bit more and with this allow troops to thrust/swing around their shields while blocking.

No one trained to use shields in combat would open their guard to strike 99,9% of times like they do in the game, they would use the shield to bash, to confuse the enemy moving it and to strike around it.

This could easily be attached to blocking direction to keep with the game mechanics, you are blocking to your right to you can swing from your left, blocking up thrust down and vice versa.

this would make shielded infantry better at fighting and also be a bit more realistic, would tremendously help spearwalls aswell (spear desperately needs a buff, any buff really)

they wouldn't be able to keep up with this for long if the shields could break a bit more easily and would also open them a bit to counters like you are blocking from your left trying to swing from the right but this leaves your right side a bit more exposed to an enemy who could potentially hit you from there (would block more than completely without any shield of course but wouldn't be 100%)
Oh yeah, I agree with you... I just thought attacking while defending would be too complex for the combat system the game has at the moment and would be OP if only shield could do it
 
I absolutely hate enemies using shields.

As an archer/crossbowman, they'll pull a huge shield from their hip to their face faster than humanly possible, and catch your arrow. You can also aim over the shield at their exposed head but the magical shield still somehow stops it. Same thing when aiming for the legs, which should be the counter for shield-bearers (who btw can't actually see you behind the shield so wouldn't be able to even see the arrow coming), the shield becomes an arrow magnet 90% of the time.

No pila or javelins can seem to penetrate even the worst shield and cause any damage, even when the javelin is entering the character model. Any javelin thrown from the shield side always magically find their way into the shield, even when they're not actively blocking.

How unsatisfying it is when I lead a cavalry charge with a couched lance into infantry, only to hear a pathetic little "donk" sound, do no damage besides charge damaged, then get mobbed. Are you really telling me that a heavily armoured knight galloping full speed with a couched lance was stopped by some random peasant with a thin bit of wood? The shield dude should at the very least be knocked over and have his shield shatter. Another point on cav charges: the charge damage done by horses is pathetic and really needs to be better at knocking over the enemy - at the moment infantry are just taking a whole horse to the face like their girlfriend slapped them and mass cavalry charges aren't causing nearly enough chaos.

When using complex polearms or two-handers, shield are frustrating (especially when fighting multiple enemies at once) because they cover way too much area and can constantly see the sword clip into their arms, head or legs right before I hear the dreaded donk and I apparently do no damage (although I noticed this has gotten a little better recently). Again, when riding full speed on a horse, it's annoying how powerful shields are at protecting against me clotheslining other cavalry, considering we just collided at full speed and nothing happened.

When I'm fighting as shield infantry, it's not even fun. The shield is obviously very useful against archers, but it's also just a "click to defend everything" button, as long as you don't go left/right the wrong way (up and down blocking blocks pretty much everything). I also can't use my 1H shortsword properly in the shield wall because the stab animation is so weak (it gets blocked by the guy on your right because of the weird angle the thrust originates from). The thrust should come much quicker and straighter, sort of like the kick.

In general the melee suffers because weapons are swung waaaayy too slow (especially the spears and thrusting in general), but it also makes the shield's catch all ability so much stronger as well as a boring playstyle. I would like to see faster weapons and less god-like shields. Perhaps adding in some sidestepping could help provide a way to outmanoeuvre the shield-bearer as well as make the infantry gameplay more exciting and dynamic.
[POLL] SHIELD + STUCKED PROJECTILE = ENCUMBRANCE
a suggestion for projectile(arrow,bolt, throwing weapon) vs shield
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Aim for their right shoulder at close-medium range, easy to hit. All non-SW units bob their shields in a steady rhythm at they move so it's very easy to land head shots on them form medium-long distance by firing into their formation with the rhythm.

If they're in shield wall they move so slow you can easily split you ranged units and move 1/2 around and behind them. I have never seen them try to circle formation or anything smart when I do this, they just die.

I do think lower tier shield should break much faster (I never see them break in actual non-shenanigan battles) from arrows and just in general. Compared to warband shields last way too long. It's good for t4+ but lower tier should see their shield busted sooner IMO.
In general though, infantry is still too vulnerable to ranged units and easy to kite and slaughter as the player.
 

five bucks

Sergeant
Shields are not the way to do this though.

Pikes and dense formations should be the cavalry counter (Make Vlandian Pikemen Great Again!), not Bob and his glorified plank. The introduction of spear bracing is a promising start towards making pikes a viable counter against cavalry charges.
Yeah, this.

Shields should only be stopping cavalry charges of the same tier.

If it's a T3 infantry unit, with a mid tier shield, fighting a T3 cavalry unit, then I'm fine with the cavalry getting stopped in the charge. Seems consistent with IRL battles like Hastings.

But... If it's a T2 unit holding a **** tier flimsy shield, being charged by a T6 cavalry unit with his reinforced lance on his heavily armoured giant warhorse charger, then that shield should be deleted, and the guy behind it knocked into next week.
 

ArturMorhghain

Sergeant
I do miss the shield breaking - which felt common - in warband.

It’d be nice if axes, lances, and thrown weapons could break shields with some regularity. And it’d give skirmishers more of a role if arrows were less likely to break shields so they could counter them a bit in a battle. Although if thrown weapons could break shields I guess they’d become counters for heavy infantry.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
I do miss the shield breaking - which felt common - in warband.

It’d be nice if axes, lances, and thrown weapons could break shields with some regularity. And it’d give skirmishers more of a role if arrows were less likely to break shields so they could counter them a bit in a battle. Although if thrown weapons could break shields I guess they’d become counters for heavy infantry.
People already suggested exactly this -- multiple times -- but TW kept the default 1/10th projectile (arrow, rock, javelin, etc.) damage to shields for 'balance purposes'.
 

ArturMorhghain

Sergeant
People already suggested exactly this -- multiple times -- but TW kept the default 1/10th projectile (arrow, rock, javelin, etc.) damage to shields for 'balance purposes'.

Yeah I’ve definitely seen the past suggestions. A shame it remains like this.
 
On one hand i agree with you, they should do away with magic shields (as many mods already did) making it only defend exactly the size of it's model, shields should also break a bit more easily with javelins/pilla being one or two hits to destroy the shield at maximum (to simulate how they would make shield almost useless during a fight after their stuck in the planks).

On the other hand i would like them to make the blocking directions a bit more prominent to open the block a bit more and with this allow troops to thrust/swing around their shields while blocking.

No one trained to use shields in combat would open their guard to strike 99,9% of times like they do in the game, they would use the shield to bash, to confuse the enemy moving it and to strike around it.

This could easily be attached to blocking direction to keep with the game mechanics, you are blocking to your right to you can swing from your left, blocking up thrust down and vice versa.

this would make shielded infantry better at fighting and also be a bit more realistic, would tremendously help spearwalls aswell (spear desperately needs a buff, any buff really)

they wouldn't be able to keep up with this for long if the shields could break a bit more easily and would also open them a bit to counters like you are blocking from your left trying to swing from the right but this leaves your right side a bit more exposed to an enemy who could potentially hit you from there (would block more than completely without any shield of course but wouldn't be 100%)
This is a perfect fix. Really bugs me that there is no real use of phalanx tactics with a shieldwall. And for that matter there isnt much of a reason to use any other formation on infantry in the game. Would be great to push with shields and stab with a spear.
 

vonbalt

Knight at Arms
WBNWVCM&B
This is a perfect fix. Really bugs me that there is no real use of phalanx tactics with a shieldwall. And for that matter there isnt much of a reason to use any other formation on infantry in the game. Would be great to push with shields and stab with a spear.
yup, unfortunately we know this is going to the trash bin of community ideas alongside all the rest lol

I've still to find a game that do shielded combat right to scratch my itch of proper shieldwall fights :lol:
 

eddy0509

Recruit
yup, unfortunately we know this is going to the trash bin of community ideas alongside all the rest lol

I've still to find a game that do shielded combat right to scratch my itch of proper shieldwall fights :lol:
Viking Conquest did a pretty good job regarding shieldwall battles, or melee infantry combat in general imo.
 
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Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
Shields are actually weak in my view and archers are able to massacre shielded units with easy.
 

AndrewArt

Sergeant at Arms
Agreed, and thrown weapons are getting nerfed to the ground too... I wish they did what their purpose in history really was, for example javelins made shields unusable... would like them to at least destroy the weak wooden shields, at least that would be cool.
 

Antaeus

Veteran
I don't get the problem?

Infantry hold up shields... split your archers, or use your horse archers to create enfilading fire from their flank. Those shields are useless when fired upon from two directions.

*shrug*
 
I don't get the problem?

Infantry hold up shields... split your archers, or use your horse archers to create enfilading fire from their flank. Those shields are useless when fired upon from two directions.

*shrug*
Did you only read the bit about archery? I'm not talking about archery-based tactics, I'm talking about the player experience of having shots blocked by magic shields...

The answer to every tactical problem in bannerlord shouldn't be "mass archers/HA" but it always is because shield infantry is only really useful as an arrow sponge rn.
 
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