This. People who want weaker shields are basically asking for a higher solo kill count and don't really want a team game. That is fine to want and there will eventually be servers that ban shields but definitely should not be the default M&B which is SP based but for MP is team-based.
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MP Shields are op and there aren't enough skills to open up an opponent
- Thread starter ArdentEye
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This. People who want weaker shields are basically asking for a higher solo kill count and don't really want a team game. That is fine to want and there will eventually be servers that ban shields but definitely should not be the default M&B which is SP based but for MP is team-based.
A 1H sword takes 3-5 hits to kill an armored guy. Shield users are a balance of defense and offence.
a 2h weapon can kill on the first hit, trading defense for full offence.
Shield use isn't all positive, let me balance all the blatant 2-handed spammer nonsense a little.
A shield slows down your persons run speed and weapon speed.
A shield blocks much of your vision in First person, some shields make you blind.
shields prevent you from using more powerful (op) 2 -handed weapons.
a 2h weapon can kill on the first hit, trading defense for full offence.
Shield use isn't all positive, let me balance all the blatant 2-handed spammer nonsense a little.
A shield slows down your persons run speed and weapon speed.
A shield blocks much of your vision in First person, some shields make you blind.
shields prevent you from using more powerful (op) 2 -handed weapons.
No, people who want weaker shields want melee to matter in a melee game. When it's laboriously difficult to kill someone in melee 1v1 because they can just shield forever while backing off, this indirectly acts as a benefit to weapons and classes ignore shields e.g. cav, archers, javelins, and spears. 1h and shield should be a viable tactic not just for survival but for killing as well, at its core right now playing infantry isn't fun, and at a higher level is useful only to tank damage while the actually threatening classes do damage.
In Warband shields broken far quicker and nobody would ever claim shields were bad in that game or that teamwork didn't matter.
In Warband shields broken far quicker and nobody would ever claim shields were bad in that game or that teamwork didn't matter.
RCC_God
Knight
This. The problem is right now an infantry will just tank behind their shield as you hilt spam it to death. Nothing you can do and it’s a hard nerf to the already weak infantry
Sirwalterhorstsock
Recruit
Shields also should break from throwing weapons quicker like javs and throwing spears to represent the weight and inability to move with them after , like history would also make javs good in captains mode
Sirwalterhorstsock
Recruit
I mean this was a two for one , both historical and good for game balance together in harmony here , what is balance reason against it ?
This thread needs a bump and a serious look at by devs.
Holding down right click is not skill-based. People asking for a shield nerf are simply trying to steer the mechanics to a more skill-based position. As of right now, shields are much too strong. The only fix is to lower their hitpoints in general.
I understand this is a team game, and sometimes holding down my right click may be inviting my teammates to come help etc., but the flag system negates this. I can hold my right click while my flag is up knowing it will take 2 minutes for this guy with a sword to break my shield. To me, there is absolutely no skill involved in that 1v1 while the one guy is literally just holding a button down to win.
I'm not sure if they were going for realism here, but if they were, they did so in the face of balanced combat mechanics and it's ultimately one more nail in the coffin.
Holding down right click is not skill-based. People asking for a shield nerf are simply trying to steer the mechanics to a more skill-based position. As of right now, shields are much too strong. The only fix is to lower their hitpoints in general.
I understand this is a team game, and sometimes holding down my right click may be inviting my teammates to come help etc., but the flag system negates this. I can hold my right click while my flag is up knowing it will take 2 minutes for this guy with a sword to break my shield. To me, there is absolutely no skill involved in that 1v1 while the one guy is literally just holding a button down to win.
I'm not sure if they were going for realism here, but if they were, they did so in the face of balanced combat mechanics and it's ultimately one more nail in the coffin.
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they shouldnt get lower hp; their correct block modifier needs to be lowered + the modifier of 1h weapons against shields needs to be increased
What do you mean by correct block modifier needs to be lowered?
You want the shield to take more damage if the player correctly blocks an attack? (Active blocking attack direction)
Or do you want the shield to take less damage in this case, but more damage for an incorrect block (aided by the higher damage against shields).
You want the shield to take more damage if the player correctly blocks an attack? (Active blocking attack direction)
Or do you want the shield to take less damage in this case, but more damage for an incorrect block (aided by the higher damage against shields).
Okay so lets see what is going on here.
You are saying that shields are too strong and 1v1 inf fights can get boring pretty soon.
lets ask the following question: How do you think a 1v1 in infantry turns out when both have a massive shield. Yes, the shield will absorb 90% of hits and YES, it will take a lot of hits before getting destroyed.
All I can say, this is totally realistic. If you are not patient to fight time consuming 1v1s, then focus on taking out other people or dont even bother hitting him. I still understand your point of view but it is totally realistic and thats why I hope they will at least not massively reduce shield effectiveness.
You are saying that shields are too strong and 1v1 inf fights can get boring pretty soon.
lets ask the following question: How do you think a 1v1 in infantry turns out when both have a massive shield. Yes, the shield will absorb 90% of hits and YES, it will take a lot of hits before getting destroyed.
All I can say, this is totally realistic. If you are not patient to fight time consuming 1v1s, then focus on taking out other people or dont even bother hitting him. I still understand your point of view but it is totally realistic and thats why I hope they will at least not massively reduce shield effectiveness.
Merged "Shields are op and there aren't enough skills to open up an opponent" with "Shields are still too resistant" by @flavberg , moved it to Combat subsection, and put it up on "MP Top Feedback and Suggestions", as the threads are related, and both threads individualy surpassed activity tresholds by much.
Personally I don't think they should mess with the modifier for making correct blocks. Making correct blocks should be rewarded and in this case, taking a little damage on the shield but not much. I think the shield should take more damage for missing correct blocks though, it should be more punishing to incentivize correct blocking. Because as of now, it takes too long to break shields and people can just turtle even if they aren't hitting the correct blocks. In melee fights the only real downside besides taking a little bit more damage is if you're at a bad angle for the incoming swing, miss the correct block causing you to be hit.
If they do that, make Axes a little more potent against shields even if the shield user makes correct blocks, and add in a bit longer stun for shield bashes and kicks to actually open up the opponent or yourself for a hit or two, Melee fights could start to become fairly interesting besides just running in, Attack, block, attack, block, maybe feint or maybe attack, block, etc.
If they do that, make Axes a little more potent against shields even if the shield user makes correct blocks, and add in a bit longer stun for shield bashes and kicks to actually open up the opponent or yourself for a hit or two, Melee fights could start to become fairly interesting besides just running in, Attack, block, attack, block, maybe feint or maybe attack, block, etc.
DainMorgot
Sergeant
Shiels in this game is pathetic but it makes combat playable because non-shield blocking is actually extremely bad. Once they fix block delays and deadzone sensitivity pickups they should make shields break 50% faster. Shield turtling is stupid and most 1v1s end in a cav killing one of the fighters. Who would actually believe that hold+kick glitch for faster swing would actually benefit shield combat. Right now its the only viable way to open up an opponent.
Which is crap and uninteresting. Previously movement, shield health, and well executed pressure were counters, now you run up and hit E for instant stun.
These factors are still a thing, but it feels different because you don't kill somebody after getting in 2 good hits. To be fair with chain attacks you have an additional tool at hand. I hope with tinkering the combat parameters in the upcoming beta branches the combat will be much more fluid and responsive.
DainMorgot
Sergeant
Classical case of get gud? I mention the kickslash myself in the post in case you forgot to read the last part. Kicking is cheese and easy. Chain attacks i telegraph garbage that will never work against decent players.
I mean they're a thing in that they exist in a vague form within the game, but they need huge improvement to really be considered viable ways to actually kill someone competent and defensive. As you say, kickslash is the only quick solution right now for melee.
I agree the damage sponge nature adds to it though, feels a lot easier to pressure the lightly armoured guys due to knowing 1-2 hits brings them down compared to 4-5.