Shields and archers

[Merentha]

This arose when playing ancientwanker's LotR mod (go check it out, its incredible).

I had a force of archers, when many orcish footsoldiers arrived. They all had shields, and so were able to advance on my men with no problems whatsoever. I believe that shields should be modified so that there is a chance (for ai characters, and possibly yourself) that an arrow ignores the shield. The option for player characters would either allow you to only ignore the shield if you aim for the gaps the shield presents, but that has the flaw of making shields useless past skill 150ish, when the reticle is effectively zero. If shields could be bypassed randomly at possibly a 1/10th percent of your skill as the percentage chance (200 skill gives you a 20% chance to bypass a shield).

The shield skill could lower this chance,which gives players a reason to train shield more. If there is a chance shields can be bypassed by arrows, i know i would want to lower that chance if i could. The size of the shield could also be a factor, further modifying the percentage chance. If it could be further modified that the larger a shield, the more you got slowed (I agree wholeheartedly that raising your shield should slow your forward advance), then picking a shield might actually require more of a decision than simply, "which one gives me the best defense and looks good."

Finally, if my arrows could bypass a shield, i might actually try longrange shots, rather than waiting until they enter melee and then headshotting them. Helps balance the arena a little too, as it is ridiculous that the only way to kill a shielded infantry with a bow is to wait until they prepare to swing.

 

[chadz]

One thing I noticed:

When you hit a shield, the carrier of the shield has a visible "recoil", but it does not really affect hitting the person.

So how about this: If a shield gets hit, there is a time gap between hitting the shield and "rearming" the shield (=> make the shield block again). This could depend on the shield skill.

So, if you have a group of archers nailing one person, he is no moving wall anymore which can bring a whole army up to the archers, because the frequency of the archers would allow hits through the shield.

(Oh and I have no idea how historically accurate this is and frankly, I don't care)

 

[Merentha]

So how about this: If a shield gets hit, there is a time gap between hitting the shield and "rearming" the shield (=> make the shield block again). This could depend on the shield skill.

Well, I think this should happen anyway with all attacks, so yes. The suggestions are not mutually exclusive. The same delay should be implemented with raising the shield to block in the first place, with variation based on the size of the shield. Or other parrying implement.

 

[graphia]

Sounds okay, but I think if you make shields less effective than they are it removes all incentive to use them, or for that matter to use one-handed weapons. Why would you take up two slots for a weaker weapon than a two-hander with an extra slot for arrows/bolts/thrown?

 

[Kelpo]

Here was some discussion about the topic (starting from Damien's post), and needless to say, I'm all for the shields not blocking each and every arrow fired at the way of the shield bearer. Having bigger shields offer a better protection against projectiles but slower in close combat would make different shields less identical and would thus add variety to the selection of equipment. Bucklers and tower shields have a very different function on the battlefield yet the current system doesn't make them any different from each other.

 

[Merentha]

Graphia: because the archers in the mod are brutally accurate, deal massive damage, and because they have no secondary weapon, will always try to fire. I know that this applies to the mod only, but would really like to see archers have the same effectiveness in the full game. (which means removing all melee weapons or help the ai to make much better decisions about when to pul the sword out)

I think this would balance archers and shieldmen. Even with the reduced chance of blocking, I would still take a onehanded sword and shield if i had to face uruk archers (unless i was mounted...and then i would gamble with my lance)

 

[Volkier]

I've said everything regarding this matter on page 2 of http://forums.taleworlds.com/viewtopic.php?t=6052 so I won't repeat myself : Just on a side note - I think some other form of disadvantage should be given to shields, since currently shields are SPECIFICALLY designed for arrows, since you can block anything else with any other weapon...

 

[Valec SKylien]

The Orc Archers in the new LOTR mod destroy my metal shield with is 800 hp and I have two points in shield and then they shoot my horse out from underneath me.It is ridiculous, I can't kill more than 15 archers they mow me and my men down.

Don't weaken SHIELDS!

 

[Manitas]

The Orc Archers in the new LOTR mod destroy my metal shield with is 800 hp and I have two points in shield and then they shoot my horse out from underneath me.It is ridiculous, I can't kill more than 15 archers they mow me and my men down.

Don't weaken SHIELDS!

The problem here is overpowered archery, not too weak shields.

 

[Merentha]

The Orc Archers in the new LOTR mod destroy my metal shield with is 800 hp and I have two points in shield and then they shoot my horse out from underneath me.It is ridiculous, I can't kill more than 15 archers they mow me and my men down.

Yes, they are too powerful, I think, but that is for a discussion in another thread. I dont know, they mow my men down, but they are pretty easy to avoid with a good ride skill and a hunter. My battered rohan shield lasts the whole fight (unless i get dismounted and the axes go to work on it). I am not suggesting a unilateral decrease in shield use. I am suggesting a way to give archers the ability to bypass shields, and make shields, and the shield skill, more unique. Obviously the archers are too good, but not by much. Being an uruk and facing gondorian yeomen...THATS scary.

And as much as I hate to post this...saying you cannot take more than 15 archers by yourself is a little silly. 15 to 1, they SHOULD win. I understand gameplay vs. realism, but i LIKE playing a relatively lightly armored lancer charging the archers, knowing that i could easily 'die'. The worst part is knowing that many of your men will die too.

As having archers shoot your shields to pieces is a little silly, maybe arrows should get damage penalties to shields?

 

[Volkier]

V0.710
# Shields now have speed rating, and it takes a moment for blocking to become effective.
# Added option to control Defend direction by mouse movement.

Woot going to see what its like now :

 

[The Pope]

I'd prefer if it was somehow based on mouse movement rather than being chance based - move the mouse up when pressing block to defend head and upper torso, leave it still for torso and down for legs. If it hits the shield model you are safe, if not you get hit.