Shield Wall

[Dabos37]

First, thank you TW for fixing the issue where units were not able to attack effectively while in shield wall, It has been a great improvement.

I have been making some tests in custom battles and It looks like units in Shield Wall are now deadly. 250 imperial infantry units in Shield Wall were able to destroy 250 imperial infantry units in line formation. If It is the case and shield Wall is the way to go, can you please make the Battle AI to use Shield Wall by default? This would help the AI to be more competitive in open battlefields.

I have also noted that battles are now faster, this could be improved if you make the AI able to block attacks again more often, instead of spamming attacks. Thank you.

 

[Lord Bryggan]

Oh, that is good news.

 

[Dodgy]

This is actually bothering me a little.
I mean, there shouldn't be a single formation that is always the best for any situation. Every formation should have a situational use, or what's the point of having them in the first place.
So yes, I would actually be interested to know what would be the point to use any other formation for infantry once the shield wall will be working as intended.

 

[Eternal]

I strongly dislike that a shield wall is now an offensive formation, shield wall should be a passive defensive formation. The crowd control formation that a shield wall was before is now missing.

 

[Boop]

I still hate how you're forced to use Shield Wall if you want your troops to hold their shields up. That really needs to be changed.

 

[Dabos37]

I still hate how you're forced to use Shield Wall if you want your troops to hold their shields up. That really needs to be changed.

Agree, the NPCs should care more about their lifes and fight defensively but currently they attack like crazy flagellants without any fear to die. Shield Wall formation and performance in this game looks more like a regular formation should look.

 

[mr_nifty]

This is actually bothering me a little.
I mean, there shouldn't be a single formation that is always the best for any situation. Every formation should have a situational use, or what's the point of having them in the first place.
So yes, I would actually be interested to know what would be the point to use any other formation for infantry once the shield wall will be working as intended.

You have other formations for different purposes. Circle to protect from surrounding fire and enemies, to protect your own inside the circle, and so forth. You need a column in a tight passage, you need other formations for other situations. Shieldwall has it use now too, which is fantastic.

 

[Cri11e]

Pro tip:
When the attacking enemy starts retreating alittle from the shield wall, order charge and let the green fireworks begin.

 

[mamastoast]

This is actually bothering me a little.
I mean, there shouldn't be a single formation that is always the best for any situation. Every formation should have a situational use, or what's the point of having them in the first place.
So yes, I would actually be interested to know what would be the point to use any other formation for infantry once the shield wall will be working as intended.

I strongly dislike that a shield wall is now an offensive formation, shield wall should be a passive defensive formation. The crowd control formation that a shield wall was before is now missing.

Unless they changed something with regards to the movement speed of units in a shieldwall, shieldwall IS a defensive formation still.. It has a clear function... you move slower and fighter better, I'm really excited to hear that it actually works now

 

[Cochus1]

Unless they changed something with regards to the movement speed of units in a shieldwall, shieldwall IS a defensive formation still.. It has a clear function... you move slower and fighter better, I'm really excited to hear that it actually works now

But you can move fast out of the shield wall and then order shield wall during the charge or even after the lines collide. So no sense. I remember Rome 2 total wat having the same problem.

 

[mamastoast]

But you can move fast out of the shield wall and then order shield wall during the charge or even after the lines collide. So no sense. I remember Rome 2 total wat having the same problem.

If you charge with shieldwall on you are not in a shiedwall.. you are charging with raised shields (which is a stupid way to do things but hey...) I don't understand what the issue is with an organised formation having the advantage over a mindless charge.. that is how things should be imo

Moving out of shield wall only to form it before the lines clash seems like cool thing to do.

 

[Punchtown Hero]

I mean, there shouldn't be a single formation that is always the best for any situation. Every formation should have a situational use, or what's the point of having them in the first place.
So yes, I would actually be interested to know what would be the point to use any other formation for infantry once the shield wall will be working as intended.

other main formations have their uses, I want to see a reason to use the skein and ranks formation though.
Line: Great for armored throwing units or skirmishers, keeps them tight enough to not be run over by cavalry as easily. Jack of all trades formation
Loose: Provides great LoS for archers and skirmish units. Weak to cavalry, strong vs everything but wall
Square: Good formation to protect vs mass horse archers, very situational.
Circle: meh I think it's broken, troops don't stay in formation at all
Skein: This has potential but idk how to utilise it properly I guess
Shieldwall: Good for shielded units, not very mobile. Weakness to flanking, shields face 1 way.

 

[Moonweb]

You forgot column: strong vs archers, weak vs flank attacks esp. cavalry.
Circle is supposed to be for protecting a smaller formation (eg square of infantry) with crossbows until the right moment to set them to charge. Works well in wooded areas vs infantry and cavalry. On a field, you may want to surround your archers or infantry with pikes to defend against cavalry.
Skein is for dividing an enemy army in two when the numbers are close and presenting as many weapons as possible. Additionally, horses in a cavalry skein will instinctively follow the leader keeping the formation tight, trampling many to death and quickly shifting the odds.

 

[aljaz823]

Can someone confirm spearmen vs cavalry is still broken? Last time I tried a custom battle of 400 spearmen vs 200 cavalry, spearmen got demolished everytime, barely killing any cavalry at all no matter the formation.

Also is it correct that realistically speaking spearmen should be VERY effective against cavalry?

 

[Yangbang]

Shield walls were incredible defensive and offensive formations. Any one not happy about the shield wall being a offensive formation has not played outside enough as a kid. The only draw backs to a shield wall should be its lack of flanking and also its vulnerability to being flanked.

The shield wall is supposed to be the anchor of the battlefield that clashes with enemies anchor point, normally their shield wall. From there your support (archers or aux infantry normally in the loose, line, or column formations) or cavalry come in from the sides.

 

[Moonweb]

Yes and yes. They miss 90% of shots they should land, and spears and pikes were specifically designed to counter cavalry.

Realistically speaking, the spear is light enough to be used hand-to-hand and can also be thrown if necessary. The pike is strictly defensive and difficult to use one-to-one but in large numbers produces a porcupine effect against any attacker. The heel digs into the ground and the weapon is heavy enough to stop a charging horse.
The halberd is just an oversized, well-hafted axe so you can make of that what you want.
In any case, soldiers holding one of these weapons should be very effective against cavalry, and cavalry itself using one of these weapons doubly so, when TW gets them to land their spear thrusts a little better.

 

[dannazgu]

Roman infantry tactics - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I just wished we had more formations, shield wall is so basic for defensive and offensive

 

[Dabos37]

Also is it correct that realistically speaking spearmen should be VERY effective against cavalry?

I think that not as much as people could think. The only evidences de have about cavalry losing vs cavalry were battles where infantry units and archers had to take advantage of environment.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

The issue is not so much the formations, but the lack of space between units. Look at this thread, theres too much clipping. https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...m-with-combat-unit-collision-and-mass.409576/

 

[Shaggy_711]

If you charge with shieldwall on you are not in a shiedwall.. you are charging with raised shields (which is a stupid way to do things but hey...) I don't understand what the issue is with an organised formation having the advantage over a mindless charge.. that is how things should be imo

Moving out of shield wall only to form it before the lines clash seems like cool thing to do.

Right, because what society ever formed and charged with a phalanx? Or a shield wall... (Hint: it's alot)