Shield equity, the method

Are you agree to give the shields the same range of manoeuvrability?

  • Yes, enhances gameplay

    Votes: 76 76.8%
  • No, there must be differences

    Votes: 27 27.3%

  • Total voters
    99

Currently viewing this thread:

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Master Knight
Once again, thanks to the possibility of testing in a controlled environment offered by the custom battle mod, I have fiddled with a certain parameter regarding the shields.

The round sturgian shields perform wonderfully (or as I like them), having an abysmal margin of maneuver, much wider than the rest. As you know, they work like this:



I decided to take a look at the parameters of the round sturgian shields within the item file. All the rounds that work "so well" for me had a line that distinguished them from the rest, item_usage="hand_shield".

So I asked myself, will this work when applied to a different shield? I think so, take a look at this video:

first not applied - second applied

So here's my suggestion once again, equity in shields. By giving this parameter to all shields together with correct x,y,z positioning (in the editor it won't take long) + rotation; we would have IMO a significant improvement in the blocking system.

Dynamic blockMountedBlocking arrows
Enemy Ai blocking arrows overhead

I leave you a survey to see the general interest

 
Last edited by a moderator:

XDaron

Knight at Arms
I've seen a lot of complaints about not being able to block arrows because you accidently blocked to the left or to the right https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ould-go-back-to-being-omnidirectional.392024/ https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...eintroduce-full-coverage.390322/#post-9191400
OurGloriousLeader said:
People know to block down, the issue arises when you have to turn in multiple directions or quickly block e.g. if you're surrounded or having to fend off an incoming horse from behind then turn back to an archer. In these circumstance having to pull down (limiting vision) isn't ideal and doesn't add anything to the game.
I find myself having to readjust it all the time when archers suddenly show up from around the corner and I have to make rash movements to get it up and face them
I imagine the complaints will increase if this is added to all block directions (as much as I love hand shields incredible arcs). if anything I just wished taleworlds would increase the upwards blocking arc for all shields (execpt hand shields) so we can block arrows from above in sieges and make cool formations
edit: just noticed you were present in all those shield threads so I didn't need to quote anyone
 
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I agree with giving them similar maneuverability, it happened on multiple occasions that I had archers firing directly above me and I could not defend myself due to the limited arc of the shield (whereas having a round one would've saved me), which I imagine is something that would be also more common in Siege mode.

I don't have a problem with blocking down in any occasion, it becomes muscle memory after a while, but that hasn't much to do with the type of grip of each shield but with directional blocking itself. With some small adjustments to the maximum side angle that could be easily mitigated.
 

Piconi

Fashionista
Subforum Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Nice hacks, my boi , it looks really good on every shield !

 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Master Knight
Added 4 more videos to see how it works in different environments.
p.d. oh my boi :lol:
 
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Piconi

Fashionista
Subforum Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I see that first thread as a report of an inconsistency in combat mechanics, and this thread more as a clearly tought-out suggestion for the easiest way of implementation, supproted with visual representation and a poll to feel out the pulse of the community on the matter in question, because the few of us supporting it vocaly are obviously not the holders of the absolute truth, as noone really is.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Master Knight
In this video, I modified another shield, a small heater. The result shown in the video:

Default (00:00-00:50) / Freehand (00:50-01:5:cool:
 

Mabons

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
In this video, I modified another shield, a small heater. The result shown in the video:

Default (00:00-00:50) / Freehand (00:50-01:5:cool:

This looks so much more alive and looks like you are actually moving your shield to parry rather than cowering behind it.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Master Knight
If you have access to the beta and to the custom battle mod you can "test the system" by yourself to see what is the feeling.
Copy this and paste it into allitems.xml. Then take the shield id and apply it to the equipment of a new npc in mpcharacters.xml (Here is a guide on how to incorporate items into the mod)

<Item id="test_shield"
name="test_shield"
modifier_group="shield_wood"
body_name="bo_cap_shield_aserai_infantary_a"
shield_body_name="bo_shield_aserai_infantary_a"
recalculate_body="false"
mesh="shield_aserai_infantary_a"
culture="Culture.neutral_culture"
using_tableau="true"
is_merchandise="false"
weight="6.9"
difficulty="0"
appearance="0.7"
Type="Shield">
<ItemComponent>
<Weapon weapon_class="LargeShield"
body_armor="5"
thrust_speed="82"
thrust_damage="5"
thrust_damage_type="Blunt"
speed_rating="82"
physics_material="wood_shield"
item_usage="hand_shield"
position="-0.05,-0.1,0.02"
rotation="-90.0,-90.0,15.0"
item_holsters="shield_kite:shield_2:shield_3:shield_4"
has_lower_holster_priority="true"
weapon_length="110"
center_of_mass="0.0,0.05,0.05"
holster_position_shift="0.0,0,0"
hit_points="210">
<WeaponFlags CanBlockRanged="true"
Ha****Points="true" />
</Weapon>
</ItemComponent>
<Flags WoodenParry="true"
ForceAttachOffHandPrimaryItemBone="true"
HeldInOffHand="true" />
</Item>

<Item id="test_shield2"
name="test_shield2"
modifier_group="shield_wood"
body_name="bo_cap_kite_shield_d"
shield_body_name="bo_kite_shield_d"
recalculate_body="false"
mesh="kite_shield_d"
culture="Culture.neutral_culture"
using_tableau="true"
is_merchandise="false"
weight="6.9"
difficulty="0"
appearance="0.7"
Type="Shield">
<ItemComponent>
<Weapon weapon_class="LargeShield"
body_armor="5"
thrust_speed="82"
thrust_damage="5"
thrust_damage_type="Blunt"
speed_rating="82"
physics_material="wood_shield"
item_usage="hand_shield"
position="0.05,-0.2,-0.1"
rotation="-90.0,-90.0,15.0"
item_holsters="shield_kite:shield_2:shield_3:shield_4"
has_lower_holster_priority="true"
weapon_length="128"
center_of_mass="0.0,0.05,0.05"
holster_position_shift="0.0,0,0"
hit_points="210">
<WeaponFlags CanBlockRanged="true"
Ha****Points="true" />
</Weapon>
</ItemComponent>
<Flags WoodenParry="true"
ForceAttachOffHandPrimaryItemBone="true"
HeldInOffHand="true" />
</Item>

<Item id="test_shield3"
name="test_shield3"
modifier_group="shield_wood"
body_name="bo_cap_aserai_shields_a"
shield_body_name="bo_aserai_shields_a"
recalculate_body="false"
mesh="aserai_shields_a"
culture="Culture.neutral_culture"
using_tableau="true"
is_merchandise="false"
weight="6.9"
difficulty="0"
appearance="0.7"
Type="Shield">
<ItemComponent>
<Weapon weapon_class="LargeShield"
body_armor="5"
thrust_speed="82"
thrust_damage="5"
thrust_damage_type="Blunt"
speed_rating="82"
physics_material="wood_shield"
item_usage="hand_shield"
position="-0.05,-0.1,0.02"
rotation="-90.0,-90.0,15.0"
item_holsters="shield_kite:shield_2:shield_3:shield_4"
has_lower_holster_priority="true"
weapon_length="110"
center_of_mass="0.0,0.05,0.05"
holster_position_shift="0.0,0,0"
hit_points="210">
<WeaponFlags CanBlockRanged="true"
Ha****Points="true" />
</Weapon>
</ItemComponent>
<Flags WoodenParry="true"
ForceAttachOffHandPrimaryItemBone="true"
HeldInOffHand="true" />
</Item>

<Item id="test_shield4"
name="test_shield4"
modifier_group="shield_wood"
body_name="bo_cap_heater_shield_k"
shield_body_name="bo_heater_shield_k"
recalculate_body="false"
mesh="heater_shield_k"
culture="Culture.neutral_culture"
using_tableau="true"
is_merchandise="false"
weight="6.9"
difficulty="0"
appearance="0.7"
Type="Shield">
<ItemComponent>
<Weapon weapon_class="LargeShield"
body_armor="5"
thrust_speed="82"
thrust_damage="5"
thrust_damage_type="Blunt"
speed_rating="82"
physics_material="wood_shield"
item_usage="hand_shield"
position="0.05,-0.2,-0.1"
rotation="-90.0,-90.0,15.0"
item_holsters="shield_kite:shield_2:shield_3:shield_4"
has_lower_holster_priority="true"
weapon_length="105"
center_of_mass="0.0,0.05,0.05"
holster_position_shift="0.0,0,0"
hit_points="210">
<WeaponFlags CanBlockRanged="true"
Ha****Points="true" />
</Weapon>
</ItemComponent>
<Flags WoodenParry="true"
ForceAttachOffHandPrimaryItemBone="true"
HeldInOffHand="true" />
</Item>


<Item id="test_shield5"
name="test_shield5"
modifier_group="shield_wood"
body_name="bo_cap_shield_khuzait_infantary_a"
shield_body_name="bo_shield_khuzait_infantary_a"
recalculate_body="false"
mesh="shield_khuzait_infantary_a"
using_tableau="true"
is_merchandise="false"
weight="6.9"
difficulty="0"
appearance="0.7"
Type="Shield">
<ItemComponent>
<Weapon weapon_class="LargeShield"
body_armor="5"
thrust_speed="82"
thrust_damage="5"
thrust_damage_type="Blunt"
speed_rating="82"
physics_material="wood_shield"
item_usage="hand_shield"
position="-0.05,-0.1,0.02"
rotation="-90.0,-90.0,15.0"
item_holsters="shield_kite:shield_2:shield_3:shield_4"
has_lower_holster_priority="true"
weapon_length="110"
center_of_mass="0.0,0.05,0.05"
holster_position_shift="0.0,0,0"
hit_points="210">
<WeaponFlags CanBlockRanged="true"
Ha****Points="true" />
</Weapon>
</ItemComponent>
<Flags WoodenParry="true"
ForceAttachOffHandPrimaryItemBone="true"
HeldInOffHand="true" />
</Item>

<Item id="test_shield6"
name="test_shield6"
modifier_group="shield_wood"
body_name="bo_cap_heater_shield_c"
shield_body_name="bo_heater_shield_c"
recalculate_body="false"
mesh="heater_shield_c"
using_tableau="true"
weight="4.7"
appearance="0.5"
Type="Shield">
<ItemComponent>
<Weapon weapon_class="LargeShield"
body_armor="1"
thrust_speed="82"
thrust_damage_type="Blunt"
speed_rating="82"
physics_material="wood_shield"
item_usage="hand_shield"
position="0.18,0.0,-0.04"
rotation="-1.0,30.00,30.00"
item_holsters="shield:shield_2:shield_3:shield_4"
has_lower_holster_priority="true"
weapon_length="70"
center_of_mass="0.0,0.1,0.05"
holster_position_shift="0.0,0,0"
hit_points="480">
<WeaponFlags CanBlockRanged="true"
Ha****Points="true" />
</Weapon>
</ItemComponent>
<Flags WoodenParry="true"
HeldInOffHand="true"
ForceAttachOffHandSecondaryItemBone="true" />
</Item>
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Master Knight
As the siege mode will presumably be implemented shortly; well here is a quite revealing test:


Default (00:00-00:32) / Freehand (00:32-END)
 

darksoulshin

Sergeant at Arms
WBNWVC
As the siege mode will presumably be implemented shortly; well here is a quite revealing test:


Default (00:00-00:32) / Freehand (00:32-END)
I really hope that the developers see your thread and your suggestion on how to block with shields.
And that they implement it.
 

nGabor

Sergeant
WBVCWF&S
Great tests! I hope devs will implement it.

By the way if I remember correctly it has been stated that climbing ladders would require seathing weapons. Is this still a thing? Your siege test video suggests the opposite.
 

Piconi

Fashionista
Subforum Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Really good job buddy! I hope all this effort to show how beneficial it actually would be, to implement this will come to fruitition!
 
As the siege mode will presumably be implemented shortly; well here is a quite revealing test:


Default (00:00-00:32) / Freehand (00:32-END)

This is a massive improvement. It’s a no-brainer for an attacker to be able to hold their shield above their head.
What’s more players will be able to create a sort of testudo if they can put the shields above their heads.
 

flavberg

Knight
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
As the siege mode will presumably be implemented shortly; well here is a quite revealing test:


Default (00:00-00:32) / Freehand (00:32-END)

Definitely needs to be added in. This makes the use of a shield so much more dynamic than 4 fixed states, which is what TaleWorlds was trying to achieve, but also more intuitive. Great job.
 

helari

Sergeant
Climbing ladders should be a moment of vulnerability imo. Friendly archers are an answer to defenders peeking over the wall to shoot at the climbers. Being able to block any arrows while climbing trivialises ladder assaults while they should be the most risky attack route. With the current low arrow damage you could probably survive the climb while taking hits anyways.
 
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