Shield Effects

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liek09

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I realized that when i'm fighting enemy on the ground and as i charge forward with my shield hitting enemy BAM. Nothing happen, the enemy wasnt knock off 2 feet away from me but he just move back slowly attacking me.

I think it would really add more fun if i can use shield not only to defend but use it to knock back enemy then i can stab/swing my sword on enemy.

i'm not advertising this game but i would like to let everyone see the cool effects of using your shield to knock people 2-3 feet away (I would assume your character must be really strong to do that to a full grown man).

http://www.totalwarriorgame.com/

just look under 'Spartan: Total Warrior' then click 'download' and choose to download the trailer.

Oh yeah one more cool thing about that video is when the warrior fired 2-3 arrows at the romans and see how those romans got thrown all the way to the walls so i think it would be awesome effects if our character with high strengh can do same thing to enemy.

:twisted:
 
I was thinking the same thing. Not the super-ninja effects depicted in the video, but just taking mass into account for some things.

For instance, a massed formation with heavy shields might be able to take a lance charge. Such a mass moving forward could trample ground troops. Why can't a footman charge with a spear/pike, or hold it at an angle to repel cavalry? Or buy poles, either vertical or sharpened-and-angled to stick into the ground?
 
Tzarius said:

ok you need to expand on your simple "no". Unless you disagree without any good reason.

well i mean i'm using a shield made of steel, wont that knock/push you away if i charge towards you with full strengh ? I mean I would get headache if someone bash his shield on my head not to mention someone who charge towards me with full speed would knock me away.
 
Conservation of momentum re bows: if you can hit them hard enough to send them flying, then you will go flying backwards. Also: this is not a game about superheroes: if you were able to do that to them, they could (and would, often) do it to you. I cannot stress how annoying that would be.

I don't mind the shield bash or anti-cavalry longspear techniques, though. (shield bash shouldn't be too strong).
 
Bows/crossbows making you fly would be funny... Imagine charging a swadian crossbowmen, shield up, ready to lance him as soon as you get in range, only to be flung backwards off your horse 20' when his bolt hits your shield.

Or running at an archer on foot - you are ALMOST up to him, about to hack away, when suddenly he turns and puts an arrow in your shield... sending you 20 feet away, only to run back forward and get launched back over and over again, until your shield breaks.

Its already bad enough trying to rush archers, with their new run backwards while shooting you full of arrows routine. (And apparent extra damage due to velocity? You running their way + arrow flying your way > damage than you standing still + arrow flying your way?).
 
Tzarius said:
Conservation of momentum re bows: if you can hit them hard enough to send them flying, then you will go flying backwards. Also: this is not a game about superheroes: if you were able to do that to them, they could (and would, often) do it to you. I cannot stress how annoying that would be.

I don't mind the shield bash or anti-cavalry longspear techniques, though. (shield bash shouldn't be too strong).

ok about the warrior firing an arrow strong enough to make you flying backwards does sound ridiculously impossible and unrealistic. I admit that sound like super heroes strenght but the other part which i'm talking about shield bash that knock people off back does make sense dont you think ?

I mean the video show how the warrior repel back those romans who's trying to jump to the wall by using his shield and its not like they went flying backwards 100 feet away, they were just push backwards few meters away and it would be really nice to see more shield effects for ground combat in my opinion.

I have Steel Shield and the peasant right in front of me doesnt feel a thing when i charge forward with my shield to his face. I mean, come on, at least the peasant get knock back a little bit and some blunt weapon damage. if i knock him hard enough to make him unconscious then that would add more value to shield users.
 
No sveral meters knockback please - it should be something of the magnitude of a sucessful attack, maybe move back a step or two and not much more.

One can suppose that if the guy saw you coming he got himself somewhat braced dor the impact.
 
SPARTAN: TOTAL WARRIOR?????
Jesus H Christ!
Isn't there a SINGLE PC GAME that hasn't been raped into a crappy console series?
When i cooled down, i thought "Hey, spartans! Maybe we'll see some gruesome phalanx warfare!"
But here the spartans are some kind of super-ninjas who fight romans
Romans, bigods! At least they could have made Persians be the "bad guys". At least that would have made sense.
*grumble*[/b]
 
Mad Larkin said:
SPARTAN: TOTAL WARRIOR?????
Jesus H Christ!
Isn't there a SINGLE PC GAME that hasn't been raped into a crappy console series?
When i cooled down, i thought "Hey, spartans! Maybe we'll see some gruesome phalanx warfare!"
But here the spartans are some kind of super-ninjas who fight romans
Romans, bigods! At least they could have made Persians be the "bad guys". At least that would have made sense.
*grumble*[/b]

OK instead of bashing that game, do you have anything constructive to add ? Stay on the topic: Shield effects.
 
Hey, you know out of that spartan game? HOW ABOUT IF WE GET FLAMETHROWERS and LIGHTNING FINGERS?!?!

Methinks we're looking at the <b>wrong</b> total war game for inspiration....

Sure, a shield bash would be okay, and if it connected on an unprepared enemy, it might knock him around a bit. But, well, it would be pretty funny if you were swinging your shield around and you got a spear right in your guts. Oops!
 
Tzarius said:
Conservation of momentum re bows: if you can hit them hard enough to send them flying, then you will go flying backwards. Also: this is not a game about superheroes: if you were able to do that to them, they could (and would, often) do it to you. I cannot stress how annoying that would be.

I don't mind the shield bash or anti-cavalry longspear techniques, though. (shield bash shouldn't be too strong).

Even though it is correct that when an object is propelled in one direction there will be an equal force in the other direction this does not mean that a heavy bow would send the firer flying: The bow is different from a firearm in that a firearm discharges its entire energy in a few miliseconds, thus causing recoil, whereas a bow takes much longer time: The ammount of energy that is expended when the archer lets fly has to be split over the time it takes for the string to go from fully stretched to fully idle. When the arrow hits though the kinnetic energy is released into the unfortunate victim much more rapidly, meaning that the victim must be heavy enough to withstand the entire energy of the arrow instantaneously.

About the shield: Sure, if two people would be standing next to each other and one would push the other hard enough to send him flying the pushing person would fly to if not braced for it. But if you run towards someone you have to take into account the movement of the two people and calculate the impulse of the impact. Compare this to an american football player (or an ice hockey player) tackling an opponent. Sure, you wount be able to send people flying with a shield bash, but you sure should be able to knock people to the ground.
 
Okay, if you came rushing at me with a shield (not the best maneuver you can do in combat, but since you insist), I might have to dodge or I'd stumble and fall. No, I wouldn't be thrown meters off the ground and into the bushes yonder. I'd fall down on the spot or tumble a few feet backwards.

Realism galore.

Yet, if the shield push will only result in your opponent being pushed one or two steps backwards and maybe taking 5 blunt damage, then why, I ask, should Armagan ever bother with implementing such a marginal thing? Just because it's in some other game?

The game is made by two people. They need to concentrate their efforts on the big issues. Small things like this are, IMO, unimportant.

If the peasant bothers you still, hit him with your weapon.
 
Whitmire said:
Okay, if you came rushing at me with a shield (not the best maneuver you can do in combat, but since you insist), I might have to dodge or I'd stumble and fall. No, I wouldn't be thrown meters off the ground and into the bushes yonder. I'd fall down on the spot or tumble a few feet backwards.

Realism galore.

Yet, if the shield push will only result in your opponent being pushed one or two steps backwards and maybe taking 5 blunt damage, then why, I ask, should Armagan ever bother with implementing such a marginal thing? Just because it's in some other game?

The game is made by two people. They need to concentrate their efforts on the big issues. Small things like this are, IMO, unimportant.

If the peasant bothers you still, hit him with your weapon.

Falling down on the spot seems like a pretty good thing for me as an attacker. When I was younger I used to play "live" RPGs in wich you use blunted weapons and have at eachother. Tackling people (the shield is used when tackling to not be stabbed as easily when doing it) was a great way to tip them off balance for a moment and a moment is all that is needed. Doesn't work against a prepared opponent, but in a combat with multiple participants it does. Game wise it might be implemented so that if you tackle someone with the shield the effect would be that an eventual attack is interrupted and the guard is lowered for a second. As you could rush with the shield, throw the opponent off guard and immediatly follow with an attack it would be a certain advantage, but not to big. Also, you should be able to block the shield rush as any other attack representing preparing for it. I think it would be a great addition.
 
Whitmire said:
The game is made by two people. They need to concentrate their efforts on the big issues. Small things like this are, IMO, unimportant.

If the peasant bothers you still, hit him with your weapon.

Well believe it or not this game main attraction is the medieval combat, to add shield bash element in ground combat would certainly add a whole new strategy to shield users.

It is the little things that make a game interesting. you totally miss the point, shield bash is another new movement that can be categorized as an attack follow by another attack (your main weapon) that would give you the edge over a two handed weapon user.

First, you block enemy attack using your shield then you swing your sword towards the enemy, he blocks it then when he is about to swing his sword, you use your shield to bash his head thus interrupting his move and immediately swing your sword as an follow up attack (how is that possible? one hand weapon is a lot faster than two handed weapon, dont you know?).

Thats just one possible scenario of using shield as weapon, the possibilities is endless if you spend some time thinking about it.

I mean two handed weapon has the advantage of distance/range and more damage. I mean if shield bash is possible, when i'm surrounded by 3 Vaegirs footman who used two handed axe taking turns hitting my shield, it wont last 6 blows and BAM there goes my shield. Imagine if you are fighting more than 3? Lets say 5 people, if i can bash my shield to one of my enemy to knock him down that would increase my chance of survival since i'm only fighting 4 people at same time.

I can go on rambling about the possibilities of shield bash on battle field to 2-3 pages long but i believe my point is that this shield bash idea might seems insignificant to other 'big issues' that Armagan has to deal with at the moment and believe me adding bash shield movement would really make the game more interesting as i'm not the only one interested to see it happen. I do speak for many people.
 
Charging long distances to bash your enemy with your shield wouldn't make much sense, but I agree that it might be cool to add the ability to smite your enemy with your shield in extreme close combat, not necessarily doing damage, but perhaps opening up his defenses for a fraction of a second, giving you the opportunity for a follow-up blow with your weapon. This would especially make sense if the guy you're doing it to doesn't have a shield himself: A one-handed sword should be easier to knock aside. So that the move wouldn't be abused, you might make it so that the shield-bearer himself is left defenseless for a moment if he misses his window or the maneuver fails.
 
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