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Merlkir
wow, that's awfully fast. But the bashing looks nice, is it a two hander swing animation?
Merlkir
Vilhjalmr 说:Um... Isn't it always like that? Am I missing something?
everyone seems to have rather big bonuses from athletics. Watch some normal MaB videos for comparison maybe..
The Mercenary
Grandmaster Knight
Merl, I've been meaning to ask you: Why don't you have M&B?
Steel plate doesn't slow you up that much, does it? I'm normally riding a charger, I rarely even have to take part in battles, and I generally don't get dismounted unless I'm dead or about to be.
Steel plate doesn't slow you up that much, does it? I'm normally riding a charger, I rarely even have to take part in battles, and I generally don't get dismounted unless I'm dead or about to be.
Merlkir
The Mercenary 说:
my computer sucks, I didn't even bother installing 0.960. I don't play MaB much, mostly I wait for 1.0 so I could help with TLD.
cremo
Sergeant
Mirathei, i've been playing a bit with the script..
Even if i find it really great mod-wise, gameplay-wise i don't like it and here's why:
i think it's too much random and it defies the rules of parrying of the game:
You can use it against defending oponent,
they can use it on you without you being able to parry and stuff.
The result is totally random and indipendent by active player/AI skill.
Truth is that even if I totally agree on the fact this is an attack to "unbalance" the other guy so it doesn't need to hit you on your "soft" spots while unparried, yet, in real life, i guess you should anyway be able to "dodge" it.. and that "dodge chance" should be something related to your abilities and not just to "randomness".
M&B is different from a game like Baldur's gate because when you hit someone, you hit someone, there's no AC or any random stuff, it's just realistic gameplay.
While with this mod, you basically add a move which is more similar to something taken from one of those game which are more statistical based than arcade.
Yet i think that the mod idea is great and i think some changes would really make it something interesting:
Why not changing the mechanics of it so it becomes a "bounce" attack?
it's basically a bash, you can do with shields, with spear shafts and even a kick animation with 2h would be cool.
It's an hit like the others (yet to do that you have to hold parry and attack), if the opponent doesn't parry he is it by a small blow (doing minimal to no damage) and he also as a chance (cool would be if there was something like a STR check between the 2 opponents) to be pushed back a few meters away: not stunned or anything, just goes back (maybe leave a chance for him to even fall down, that would be cool).
If he parries the following can happen (randomness here):
- the opponent takes a hit on the shield and nothing else happens
- the player falls down while the opponent stays there
- the player doesn't fall down while the opponents goes back a few meters
The result is a lot less "random" and drammatical than in your original script:
- if you are fast and parry the incoming bashing attack, the worst that can happen to you is to be pushed back a few meters away.. nothing drammatic.. just something that makes distance something that doesn't count just "before the engagement".
- if you deal the bash attack there's no chance it goes against you unless you were unskilled and let the opponent parry it.
I think it s better than now where the AI and you can use an attack which is totally indipendent by skill and totally dependent by luck.
Yet i think the attack should be slower than the speed the current bash has (so the opponent has the time to parry it like other attacks), and also that the bash attack should anyway leave you, like any other attack, defenseless during the time it's done (so it's always a risk to do it, evne when you are using a shield)
And I even think different weapon should have different type of pushing attacks from each other:
1h weapon: shield bash (reduced chances of obtaining fall back/fall down of opponent, but also no chance for you to fall down)
2h weapon: kick (great chances of obtaining fall back/ top chances of getting fall down, great chances to fall down yourself if you get parried)
polearms (2h): shaft-push, you use the shaft of your weapon (which you hold with both hands) to push backwards the enemy (i think this should have top chances of getting fall back, even when it's actually parried - making polearms great defensive 2h weapons like they were for real because they could keep people away - maybe lesser chance to get the falling of an opponent tough since it s less "savage" than a kick.. and also i think this should cause you no risk of you falling down).
This way spearmen would really be cool to play! and I don't think this would be unbalanced because you are just given an attack like the others, that leaves you at the mercy of your opponents while you execute it and that if succeeds just has the opportunity to make the opponent fall back (and a CHANCE to fall down ONLY if you are actually able to hit him).. i think it's something really needed for spearmen
Even if i find it really great mod-wise, gameplay-wise i don't like it and here's why:
i think it's too much random and it defies the rules of parrying of the game:
You can use it against defending oponent,
they can use it on you without you being able to parry and stuff.
The result is totally random and indipendent by active player/AI skill.
Truth is that even if I totally agree on the fact this is an attack to "unbalance" the other guy so it doesn't need to hit you on your "soft" spots while unparried, yet, in real life, i guess you should anyway be able to "dodge" it.. and that "dodge chance" should be something related to your abilities and not just to "randomness".
M&B is different from a game like Baldur's gate because when you hit someone, you hit someone, there's no AC or any random stuff, it's just realistic gameplay.
While with this mod, you basically add a move which is more similar to something taken from one of those game which are more statistical based than arcade.
Yet i think that the mod idea is great and i think some changes would really make it something interesting:
Why not changing the mechanics of it so it becomes a "bounce" attack?
it's basically a bash, you can do with shields, with spear shafts and even a kick animation with 2h would be cool.
It's an hit like the others (yet to do that you have to hold parry and attack), if the opponent doesn't parry he is it by a small blow (doing minimal to no damage) and he also as a chance (cool would be if there was something like a STR check between the 2 opponents) to be pushed back a few meters away: not stunned or anything, just goes back (maybe leave a chance for him to even fall down, that would be cool).
If he parries the following can happen (randomness here):
- the opponent takes a hit on the shield and nothing else happens
- the player falls down while the opponent stays there
- the player doesn't fall down while the opponents goes back a few meters
The result is a lot less "random" and drammatical than in your original script:
- if you are fast and parry the incoming bashing attack, the worst that can happen to you is to be pushed back a few meters away.. nothing drammatic.. just something that makes distance something that doesn't count just "before the engagement".
- if you deal the bash attack there's no chance it goes against you unless you were unskilled and let the opponent parry it.
I think it s better than now where the AI and you can use an attack which is totally indipendent by skill and totally dependent by luck.
Yet i think the attack should be slower than the speed the current bash has (so the opponent has the time to parry it like other attacks), and also that the bash attack should anyway leave you, like any other attack, defenseless during the time it's done (so it's always a risk to do it, evne when you are using a shield)
And I even think different weapon should have different type of pushing attacks from each other:
1h weapon: shield bash (reduced chances of obtaining fall back/fall down of opponent, but also no chance for you to fall down)
2h weapon: kick (great chances of obtaining fall back/ top chances of getting fall down, great chances to fall down yourself if you get parried)
polearms (2h): shaft-push, you use the shaft of your weapon (which you hold with both hands) to push backwards the enemy (i think this should have top chances of getting fall back, even when it's actually parried - making polearms great defensive 2h weapons like they were for real because they could keep people away - maybe lesser chance to get the falling of an opponent tough since it s less "savage" than a kick.. and also i think this should cause you no risk of you falling down).
This way spearmen would really be cool to play! and I don't think this would be unbalanced because you are just given an attack like the others, that leaves you at the mercy of your opponents while you execute it and that if succeeds just has the opportunity to make the opponent fall back (and a CHANCE to fall down ONLY if you are actually able to hit him).. i think it's something really needed for spearmen
italiano
Grandmaster Knight
On what Cremo said, I was going to try and have the shield bash as more of a shove, with some damage and to create distance, but also with the chance of unbalancing the enemy (quick stun or knockdown). I'm sure Mirathei would be able to better implement it if he wants to have a go.
Lemonfield
Knight
On the issue of shield bashing and parrying, after having played all 3 versions of the Realism Combat Test and thinking about it for a couple of days now, I've gathered some thoughts of my own.
For your consideration:
Any move that does damage or otherwise impedes the player should in my opinion be blockable or parryable, as it is in the native model. This covers both the shield bash and a hypothetical parrying move. The current shield bash has instant effects leaving no chance to neutralize it or retaliate against it, which is not conducive to good back-and-forth combat (or for that matter, fun for the player).
Delaying the effects of a shield bash for a split second (just before the 'apex' of the animation perhaps), would give the receiver a chance to counter it. Naturally, one couldn't use the shield bash - as is - back, as the initial bash would still strike first. This is where a second parrying or counter bash move would come in:
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but somewhere the bash script must know who the recieving character is. Could you not then script it so that if the would-be reciever bashes back before the first bash 'hits', they would do a such a counter bash or parry instead?
If that's possible, and you also make these parries parryable, you effectively have a much improved version of what's been dubbed 'grappling' in the current builds. (Which is really just a couple guys stunning each other back and forth - slow and frustrating.)
Just my 2 cents.
Very promising work so far, keep it up.
For your consideration:
Any move that does damage or otherwise impedes the player should in my opinion be blockable or parryable, as it is in the native model. This covers both the shield bash and a hypothetical parrying move. The current shield bash has instant effects leaving no chance to neutralize it or retaliate against it, which is not conducive to good back-and-forth combat (or for that matter, fun for the player).
Delaying the effects of a shield bash for a split second (just before the 'apex' of the animation perhaps), would give the receiver a chance to counter it. Naturally, one couldn't use the shield bash - as is - back, as the initial bash would still strike first. This is where a second parrying or counter bash move would come in:
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but somewhere the bash script must know who the recieving character is. Could you not then script it so that if the would-be reciever bashes back before the first bash 'hits', they would do a such a counter bash or parry instead?
If that's possible, and you also make these parries parryable, you effectively have a much improved version of what's been dubbed 'grappling' in the current builds. (Which is really just a couple guys stunning each other back and forth - slow and frustrating.)
Just my 2 cents.
Very promising work so far, keep it up.
Merlkir
how exactly does one parry a shield bash? I'd say you rather dodge it..
cremo
Sergeant
duh... thank you einstein.
Fact is that there's no "dodge" function in m&b aside "skate walking"..
And anyway I think parrying a bash is realistic..
Just try it at home: push someone who isn't aware of that, and watch him fall down easily..
Than try to do the same with someone while telling him what you are going to do.
Parrying a bash would be like "preparing" yourself to not loose your balance..
i think that with 2h weapons best animation would be lower parry since it looks the one were the char seems to better stay on its foot.
Fact is that there's no "dodge" function in m&b aside "skate walking"..
And anyway I think parrying a bash is realistic..
Just try it at home: push someone who isn't aware of that, and watch him fall down easily..
Than try to do the same with someone while telling him what you are going to do.
Parrying a bash would be like "preparing" yourself to not loose your balance..
i think that with 2h weapons best animation would be lower parry since it looks the one were the char seems to better stay on its foot.
Merlkir
that's not a parry though.
And you can dodge easily if you have enough athletics, you don't need any stupid crazy leap buttons..
And you can dodge easily if you have enough athletics, you don't need any stupid crazy leap buttons..
cremo
Sergeant
i have 10 in athletics and 20 encumberance yet i think that in real life you can actually do sudden moves/jumps/crounch/leaning and all that stuff which will let you dodge even without changing the distance you have between you and your enemy..
And you can also actually put your feet in a way you wouldn't fall down, while if someone gives you a kick-push when "you don't expect it" you are a lot likely to lose your balance and fall down.
And you can also actually put your feet in a way you wouldn't fall down, while if someone gives you a kick-push when "you don't expect it" you are a lot likely to lose your balance and fall down.
Merlkir
dodging works just fine.
Also what you describe is certainly possible, still not a parry.
Also what you describe is certainly possible, still not a parry.
cremo
Sergeant
if you have a norman shield in your hand, and you notice someone is about to clash your shield against you or to kick you to make you loose balance what woulld you do in order to keep your balance without dodging? you'll just get more balanced on your foot or you'll also try to parry what is, in any case, a blow?
eliteman123
Recruit
How do I get this action? I cannot seem to find the Module Scripts anywhere. I nearly searched my whole entire Mount&Blade Folder, but found nothing but Module.ini contents. Somebody help me...
