Several beginner-questions, mainly 'bout sieging Thir

[Joker86]

Hi!

I'm new here, and I have M&B for some week, so I am still finding out all the possibilities in M&B one by one, but sometimes it takes really long, or is by accident, like it was with the couched lance  .

First question: is there any possibility of starting a war against a faction? I need to know that, because it almoust drives me mad I can't finish the Nords up with my Vaegirs.

First of all background information:

My character is level 33, I am already marshall of King Yarolek, I own Mechin, Knudarr Castle, Vayejeg an Sargoth (that's ideal, everything is near to each other  ), and all in all I have about 200 men, most stationed in the castle and city.

The Nords only had Thir left, and because I was marshall I thought: let's finish them up! So I started a campaign, but only 3 lords followed. Okay, when we reached there some lords just left the city, and on plain ground they were stumpbled down by my heavy cavalry, no problem. But still there were about 800 Men and 10 Lords in the city. At least King Ragnar was sitting in my prison in Knudarr, accompanied by a half dozen of his lords. 

But although our faction had about 600 men Thir simply wasn't to conquer! These f*****g (sorry) two walls are really difficult to take, because your men slowly come in one by one (and die the same way  ). So I decided to quit the campaign and to prepare myself a little bit better.

Now I have 17 heroes, each with chain armor above 55, a Bastard sword and the biggest infatry shield, and the lowest one is level 10. And I am recruiting Nords as mad, I already have 90 Huscarls, and I think I will add some 30 more 

But now: "The kingdoms of Veagir an Nords have declared peace" O!M!G! 

So the first question is: how can I restart our war? I read there is no possibility to besiege a place you're not in war with, never mind how much they hate you. (And they REALLY hate me, it's -100! I personally knocked out King Ragnar four times in battle  )

And the second one is: are there any hints or tricks how I can conquer Thir with about 800-1000 defenders in it? No need to say that King Ragnar and his Men were instantly taken out of my prison, and now are of course sitting in Thir all together 

The only thing I found out that helps by sieging Thir is to let your men stop immediately, walk the ladder up, to the left on the wall, then the ladder down, to the middle of the first yard, and then instead of climbing the great ladder walking to the very left, behind the round tower in cover, and in the very very corner press F1. Then you wait some minutes until your men are there, and THEN you attack, so that almoust all of you men can climb the ladder instantly.

Third question is: can I lead the city to starvation? What happens, when I besiege them the 100 days? Do I win instantly? Or will it be an enormous open fielded battle, because the hungry enemies try to break out?

Fourth question: would it be easier just to camp in front of the city instead of besieging it, and crushing every Nord army that leaves with heavy cavalry? Even if the lords escape, are they able to found a new army? I mean: they can't get to the sorrounding villages, so where take the recruits from? Or don't NPC lords need towns to get soldiers? If this worked, I had to deal just with the 300 defenders of Thir at the end, am I right?

P.S.: Sorry for my English, I am German, and school's out for me for some years 

 

[redhalo]

And the second one is: are there any hints or tricks how I can conquer Thir with about 800-1000 defenders in it? No need to say that King Ragnar and his Men were instantly taken out of my prison, and now are of course sitting in Thir all together 

The only thing I found out that helps by sieging Thir is to let your men stop immediately, walk the ladder up, to the left on the wall, then the ladder down, to the middle of the first yard, and then instead of climbing the great ladder walking to the very left, behind the round tower in cover, and in the very very corner press F1. Then you wait some minutes until your men are there, and THEN you attack, so that almoust all of you men can climb the ladder instantly.

I can help you here  right, basically when sieging most places you'll notice that your troops get butchered if they go in 1 by 1 or get pushed back off the ladder/tower. Well you can if your lucky get some troops to pile up onto the tower but i have noticed in native especially that the heavier troops go first... So if possible (i'm prob not making sense lol) get archers to cover the ladder with their fire. If you have a high strength bring a nice sized weapon and swing like mad till your army has breached the walls, getting yourself in first really really helps. As battles are fought on waves if you can get the upper hand by hacking away at the troops on the walls you'll notice your troops spread out really well and tend to attack from two angles.

Tbh I've probably confused you, i confused myself working out what to put but if you need more help i can try expalin it better, cos i know how irritating it is lol.

(-)RedHalo(-)

 

[redhalo]

Also forgot to say.... i've found you only fight around 60% of the castles occupants anyway so it wont be the full 800-1000 if your lucky.

 

[MisterBarca]

And the second one is: are there any hints or tricks how I can conquer Thir with about 800-1000 defenders in it? No need to say that King Ragnar and his Men were instantly taken out of my prison, and now are of course sitting in Thir all together 

The only thing I found out that helps by sieging Thir is to let your men stop immediately, walk the ladder up, to the left on the wall, then the ladder down, to the middle of the first yard, and then instead of climbing the great ladder walking to the very left, behind the round tower in cover, and in the very very corner press F1. Then you wait some minutes until your men are there, and THEN you attack, so that almoust all of you men can climb the ladder instantly.

I can help you here  right, basically when sieging most places you'll notice that your troops get butchered if they go in 1 by 1 or get pushed back off the ladder/tower. Well you can if your lucky get some troops to pile up onto the tower but i have noticed in native especially that the heavier troops go first... So if possible (i'm prob not making sense lol) get archers to cover the ladder with their fire. If you have a high strength bring a nice sized weapon and swing like mad till your army has breached the walls, getting yourself in first really really helps. As battles are fought on waves if you can get the upper hand by hacking away at the troops on the walls you'll notice your troops spread out really well and tend to attack from two angles.

Tbh I've probably confused you, i confused myself working out what to put but if you need more help i can try expalin it better, cos i know how irritating it is lol.

(-)RedHalo(-)

Doesn't leading your troops in siege into a breach also ensures that you die?

At any rate, the OP brought out two of the more frustrating parts about this game:

1. Conquering a faction. I just don't see how this is done, because AI troops replenish so fast. I am around the same level as the OP, and the factional wars always act as a see-saw, where gains are always temporary.

2. Sieging. It's just damn hard!

 

[noosers]

Lower the amount of troops you field and kill the enemy on a large scale while they sally out. With bad (int that case good for your) advantage (like -13 or less) you will be able to kill a hellish lot of enemies pretty fast and cheap - your Huscarls will eat the enemy troopers alive and if you don´t need a Siege Tower you´ll end up killing a couple of hundred defenders pretty fast. Once the garrison is reduced to a proper level, gather your full strength and wipe the enemy out.

And dont forget to hit F5  - Hold your Fire for all your troopers. Otherwise all your infantry units wearing throwing weapons will idle around instead of charging and killing the enemy.

 

[redhalo]

exactly what i thought noosers

 

[Joker86]

@ F5-Thing: Yes, I did this, because all of my 17 heroes have got a siege crossbow, but I figured out that ranged battle is highly inefficient. Yes, you kill some troops indeed, or bring some riders to fall, but I think I won't take any archers with me in future, expecially concerning sieges. Meele fighters simply pay more.

At my first attempt to conquer Thir I had 44 Swadian and 30 Vaegir Sharpshooters, but I had to send them into meele to fill the great ladder with troops.


Anyway I won't seek help from the other lords any more. I'll do the job on my own. So I can send in 120 Huscarls, without any other troops from other lords, "thinning" this fighting power with "lighter" soldiers. 4 Huscarls fighting next to each other are MORE than twice better than 2 Huscarls, if you understand what I want to say 


That brings me to the other point: the party- and battlesizes.

Normally it should be better to minimize battle size, so that your few elite troops can handle better with the few archers and mixed-quality-meele-fighters on the walls. But Thir in particular is a special case, because reinforcments need too much time to reach the surviving forces and aid them, so that when my first wave is gone the other waves crumble on the way to the ladder or at last at the top of it.

So I had to put battle size on 300 (my PC can't stand more), hoping, that when 50 Huscarls mess up 100 foes, 120 Huscarls will mess up 800... or something like that 

I know for the possibility of climbing the ladder alone and making some "space" for my troops on the walls. In fact I used it to conquer Knudarr and some other places. I have a nice lance, wich allows to wield a shield, and so I climb up and kill 100 or 150 foes on my own with the superior range of my lance. It's lame, but effective 

And if I add the fact that at the beggining 10 to 15 enemy lords are waiting on the ladder top it's highly recommended that I use this opportunity. BUT: because of the high battle size I need to effectively take the first obstacle in Thir, the enemy has got A LOT OF archers on the walls, not allowing me to put my shield down to pierce some lords. In fact even WITH blocking shield I get shot down from the laddertop after a few minutes, despite of the fact that I have complete lordly plate armour (except legs), overall about 70 I think.

What can I do? If I minimize battle size so that I can prepare the way for my troops my reinforcements will have no effect, whilst when I let the battle size high my troops get slaughtered by the waiting lords... it's a real dilemma 

But I think I will try to thin the troops with a few knights (40?) at the beginning, to lure the enemy out of the city. When their troops are gone I'll rush like mad back to Sargoth (fortunately it's relatively near), to change my 40 knights to 120 Huscarls, plus the 20 Sergeants I got. Perhaps some Swadian Sharpshooters, but only if I have place left in the party. (They are the most acceptable archers for me - they shoot very well, and they've got good armour and big shields, so I can misuse them als meele fighters as well. Unfortunately I'm in war with Rodhok, so I have no access to their superior archers  )

 

[MisterBarca]

:

I know for the possibility of climbing the ladder alone and making some "space" for my troops on the walls. In fact I used it to conquer Knudarr and some other places. I have a nice lance, wich allows to wield a shield, and so I climb up and kill 100 or 150 foes on my own with the superior range of my lance. It's lame, but effective 

Hmmm, I didn't think of using a long-range melee weapon like a lance in a siege. I'd have to try it!

 

[Joker86]

:

I know for the possibility of climbing the ladder alone and making some "space" for my troops on the walls. In fact I used it to conquer Knudarr and some other places. I have a nice lance, wich allows to wield a shield, and so I climb up and kill 100 or 150 foes on my own with the superior range of my lance. It's lame, but effective 

Hmmm, I didn't think of using a long-range melee weapon like a lance in a siege. I'd have to try it!

It works perfectly! Sometimes there are no archers in the towers to the sides of the ladder any more, so there is no need of a shield... a halberd or poleaxe there and the enemies fall like flies (you say that in English?) 


WOOOHOO I finally took Thir!


That was because I saw a REALLY HUGE party with 8-10 Lords + King with about 1200 troops starting from Thir to somewhere. "Now or never!" I thought, rushed back to Sargoth, took my troops with me, rushed back, and attacked Ragnar, although we were not in war. After my 50 heavy knights finished his army of 200 up the other lords (with about 1000 troops left!) started to run away from me, to Thir. Bad luck they scattered around on their way, so I could defeat them very comfortably in 4 seperate battles. After that, although there still was no declaration of war, I had the option to besiege Thir. And I did 

I had to use 110 Huscarls and some other small (but nasty) stuff... 85 were knocked out, 15 killed, 10 were left. The victory was shorter than I wished, but it was enough. Fortunately there were no street fights oder battles in the castle any more. Oh! By the way: the 110 Huscarls indeed killed oder knocked out 850 enemies!!!! 

Edit: of course this is only possible with 1/2 damage on allies, low AI and a high surgery-? wound treatment-?-Skill. (That one that makes killed party members knocked unconscious) 

How ironic, the Nords were defeated by their best unit 

Nonetheless there still was no message of a defeated kingdom, even after some days. In fact the brave Swadians decided to declare war on the Nords. Now. They don't even own a village! Cowards 


When will the Nords definetely be defeated? Will there be a message? Because I saw something "weird" I have never seen before: after the few battles, but before the siege of Thir, there were King Ragnar's party (who had escaped before) and the party of another lord on the world map, both only 1 man, moving with 9.7 speed  I hope I don't have to find and capture them 

 

[The Mercenary]

You have to eliminate all Nordic Lord parties left on the map.

 

[MisterBarca]

You have to eliminate all Nordic Lord parties left on the map.

To destroy a faction? How is that possible? Imprison all Lords?

 

[The Mercenary]

You have to eliminate all Nordic Lord parties left on the map.

To destroy a faction? How is that possible? Imprison all Lords?

Nah, just beat them in combat.

 

[Joker86]

Thanks, the Nords are literally erased from the world map - they still had four parties left, none with more than 30 men 


But now I've got another question yet: Why are my compagnions so stupid? 

First I had them equipped as infantry with a board shield, a bastard sword, siege crossbow and steel bolts. So far they were fighting as I liked it, either on range or meele, with one press on F3 or F5 I could determine that. Often I used them as a kind of "breaker" in sieges, because they are armoured very well (55 at least, as I said).

But now I've got 100 Huscarls as breakers for sieges, so I thought I could make my heroes to heavy cavalry, so that I can move faster on the world map when I'm traveling without regular troops. I took the Crossbows and bolts from them (from a horseback they're pretty useless), and gave them a heavy charger, lance and a kite shield. So they can either act as heavy cavalry with sword, lance, and a shield they can use from a horseback, or they can be used as heavy infantry for sieges with a big board shield and sword. But what did I have to see? My men are completely incapable of choosing the right weapon for the moment.

- They can use board shields from a horseback (???)
- depending on the order in their inventory they use either the kite or the board shield from horseback
- also depending on the inventory order they use either lance or sword, but they don't change from situation to situation, as the regular cavalry does

Is there any method I can change this? I want them to be heavy cavalry AND infantry, changing their weapons and shields as the situation requires. Regular soldiers are capable of this, why not my heroes?   

 

[Hippotoxotai]

I also noticed that.  Could someone answer it.  It's really a hassle to click through each hero to talk with them, so that I can change their topmost weapon to be a lance, when going against mounted cavalry, and to be a blade weapon when attacking a castle.

Otherwise my companions who fight superbly with lances on horseback suddenly spawn in the castle attack with shield and lances (!) and they get quickly cut down.  They don't switch to swords/axe for combat on foot.

 

[Durandal]

I also noticed that.  Could someone answer it.  It's really a hassle to click through each hero to talk with them, so that I can change their topmost weapon to be a lance, when going against mounted cavalry, and to be a blade weapon when attacking a castle.

Otherwise my companions who fight superbly with lances on horseback suddenly spawn in the castle attack with shield and lances (!) and they get quickly cut down.  They don't switch to swords/axe for combat on foot.

Right now, the best solution to this is to endure the hassle. Or just hope they grow a brain stem in battle.