Serious instability crisis - CTD with party screen.

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Khalid ibn Walid

Sergeant Knight at Arms
This is a bug, but not one in vanilla but only in the Lombard Leagues mod.

Basically, I have an enormously problematic bug - instant CTD the moment I try to invoke the party screen in the world map. I don't know if it is simply because the mod is already eating so much memory that my computer simply can't handle it (although it is a pretty good 'puter) or something got seriously messed up in the files somewhere and I don't know where to look.

That is not the only instability problem that has arisen suddenly, but it is by far the major one. It is really enervating since progress on the mod has slowed to a crawl as I hunt this stuff down.

An informative note: most of these sudden CTDs & instability errors didn't used to happen before I took the belated step of "updating" the triggers from the ones in the old 704 tools to the new 711 tools. So I'm wondering if the problem surrounds that (I've realized the new tutorial trigger is a particularly nasty creator of crashes).

But before I backtrack, is there perhaps something more obvious I am overlooking?
 
From what you said i think something got wrong when you updated the triggers.

I´m not absolutely sure of course! :wink:
 
Triggers seem to be really unstable in this version. For Storymod, any trigger with remove_party in it crashes the game. In fact, any attempt at using remove_party seems to crash to game. That might be one problem you're encountering.

If you're at the end of your rope, try reverting to the 0.704 triggers ( http://www.taleworlds.com/download/mb_module_system_0704_0.zip , in case you don't have the file anymore) and see what happens.

Referentially,
Winter
 
Thanks. I had hoped it would have been just some line I had accidentally modified or deleted, since opening the party screen shouldn't be a "trigger" issue.

But I am probably going to weave back to the 704 trigger files regardless. Those trigger scripts are neat, but problematic.

[P.S. - If it helps, I've found remove_party to be very troublesome in the trigger files. Two particular knots I've noticed:

- If the party to be removed doesn't exist, it crashes rather than ignores it.
- If you take care to specify the party_id is active in the condition, but the party_id hasn't yet been created before the trigger checks it, it returns the condition as true, tries to remove it and then crashes.

I've painfully learnt the best way to use remove_party commands is to specify the conditions by party_template counting rather than ids. Not the most efficient way and not always possible to do.]
 
Khalid ibn Walid said:
[P.S. - If it helps, I've found remove_party to be very troublesome in the trigger files. Two particular knots I've noticed:

- If the party to be removed doesn't exist, it crashes rather than ignores it.
- If you take care to specify the party_id is active in the condition, but the party_id hasn't yet been created before the trigger checks it, it returns the condition as true, tries to remove it and then crashes.

I've painfully learnt the best way to use remove_party commands is to specify the conditions by party_template counting rather than ids. Not the most efficient way and not always possible to do.]

In my coding efforts, I've had remove_party crashing the game even when the party in question exists and is properly specified, regardless of id or party template. Operation activates, game dies. No exceptions. It's is really bloody annoying.

Legislatively,
Winter
 
*bump*

Did everything, re-installed M & B, etc. The problem persists. Any ideas? I'm getting rather desperate.

(On a happy note, I've at least established it is not caused by misfiring triggers nor by the massive dialogs. It is something more basic. )
 
Hmm if you could provide us with the actual thing we could look into it and see if we can find something.

Without knowing much, i dont think we can offer good help too you.

I dont say that we will be able to help you even if you provide us with the stuff, but we may. :wink:
 
BWAAAA!!!!!! IT'S THE TROOPS FILE!!!

My worst nightmare has come true. I apparently surpassed the limit. :sad:

Yep, ladies & gentlemen, there is a troop limit. I am not even half-way done with the mod. :sad: :sad: :sad:

Anybody know if there is anyway of expanding that limit? (prays, prays, prays)
 
Can you tell us how how many troops you can have?
I dont know a way to surpase the limit, didnt reached it yet of course.
 
Yeah, share with us what the limit is, I'm curious. Then, PM Armagan and ask if it's possible to get more troop types, and if not, ask if he could increase the maximum number. I'm sure that would be useful for other mod makers in the future as well.
 
Ugh. On a first count, 492.

Given the tiresomeness of counting, my state of sudden deep depression and the tears streaming in my eyes, I probably miscounted a few. So probably 500 is the right number.

Vanilla eats around 200 (give or take a few). So, there are only 300 additional slots for mods.

(P.S. That definitely was the problem. I've messed with increasing & decreasing other troops here and there and the problem pops up at the same number).

EDIT: Khalid is a silly boy. Khalid should have just opened troops.txt and read the number at the top rather than count them all. Yes, I can confirm it is 492. 493 breaks it. And vanilla uses 163.
 
Huh, strange number for a limit. I would have thought it would be a power of 2, such as 256, 512, 1024, or so forth. <shrug> Weird.

Definitely something it would be good to have more of, I'd say. I hope Armagan can fit an increase in this maximum into the next M&B version.
 
Khalid ibn Walid said:
Vanilla eats around 200 (give or take a few). So, there are only 300 additional slots for mods.

Assuming you want to keep the Native troops in your mod. Otherwise, you can remove most of them and have almost all 492 available for you.

Also, you can only have upgrades to the first 256 units. I notice the python scripts don't dump an error for that, so be aware of that limit as well.
 
Well, I have already taken out most original troops. What brought my number up so high was all those city officers & unique nobles. They add up rather quickly.

I was admittedly rather profligate with troop-creation, so I know I can probably clear out at least 20 slots and, with careful economizing and more effective writing, clear out maybe another 20. The Lombard Leagues mod will go on. Although I still have of lot to add, it might -- just might -- come under that limit. But it will be a bit less lush with characters than I had hoped.

I have fired off a PM to armagan to see if there is a way of overcoming that limit.

Good to know about the 256. But since I have cleared out the natives, that number doesn't threaten me too much.

Any other limit numbers you know of? For what it's worth, my numbers are at present:

dialogs = 2216 (*gulp*, native = 752; a constraint here would be death)
factions = 28 (native = 24; I know the limit here is 32; but I won't need more)
items = 317 (native = 190) (will be increasing a lot)
menus = 46 (native = 24) (won't increase)
parties = 80 (native = 44) (won't increase)
party templates = 84 (native = 37) (will be increasing a bit)
quests = 25 (native = 13) (will be increasing a lot)
scenes = 197 (native = 92) (won't increase)
strings = 15 (native = 7) (increase a slight bit)
triggers = 145 (native = 80) (will probably increase quite a bit)
troops = 499 (limit is 492, native = 163) (already broke limit :sad:)
variables = no number given, but I pray to the Almighty this doesn't have a limit. I've already have at least quadruple the native amount and will be adding zillions.
 
Hi Khalid,

Sorry to hear you have been experiencing problems. Just to repeat what I said in reply to your PM for the benefit of others: there shouldn't be a limit for troops but the ID of upgraded troops should be less than 256. So you may need to put all the upgraded troops at the beginning of the declarations.

The max number of factions should be 64 and the max. number of variables is 16384 in the current version. If anyone needs to go over these limits just let me know and I'll increase the limits in the next version.
 
Armagan, I just sent you a note. But let me repeat it here. The problem persists with precise predictablity. 492 ok always, 493 party screen crashes always. No exceptions.

I don't have any more upgradeable troops than were in the original. The extra are all just unique units (and I reduced hero tags to see if that was the difference, and it wasn't).

I thought it might be merely a strain on computer processing power. But I completely cleared out all the files and just kept the troops file and it did the same thing.

If there's not a total troops limit, I am truly mystified.

[One other possibility: might it be that the upgrade lines bloc have been pushed too far down and the program can't access them? I can't really test this, since all troops have to be in the brackets of troops = []. But I'm just wondering if that might be it. EDIT: I am not sure this is the case. I have messed with the number directly in the troops.txt rather than python files. Same thing, 492 is the limit.]
 
Thanks for the info, Khalid!

Could someone sticky the current limits info (maybe put it in the FAQ post?)

Thanks!!
 
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