Honestly that's a just a shame. Please bring it up again.
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Selective targeting for formations in battles.
- Thread starter [Rei]
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Honestly that's a just a shame. Please bring it up again.
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I have to agree with you; the idea that you are just a man trying to command a battle from the ground is very immersive. I'd be happy with just the selected targetting, since that is a realistic command a commander would issue. The pause game and slow motion so you can get your commands out before your entire army is dead would not be necessary if the soldiers would play defensively when in melee (like Realistic Battle Mod).
It's very similar to a feature the community has been requesting for a while now and that would be "Selective Fire" for archers so that we could target specific enemy formations without our ranged units hitting other targets. Basically if we could somehow tell our archers to "Fire over there!" and they would start shooting where the player indicated it would solve a lot of our problems and add a lot of tactical capabilities. However I do think that having the level of targeting that the RTS mod allows for is a bit too much due to it being a little too precise, it doesn't allow for much room for mistakes because the Ai is essentially locked on target and I think this takes away from some of the skill required to navigate your troops on the battlefield a bit and might diminish your gameplay especially in captain mode where you are only responsible for one group of troops rather than upwards of 8+ groups at the same time like in singleplayer. Instead we would really like to see some form of Area of Effect targeting, where we could use an indicator flag or something similar to force our archers to fire essentially "at the ground" at that location, hitting any targets unlucky enough to be within the Area of Effect. This allows for enemies to reposition themselves and forces the player to readjust their aim which I think is a better solution.
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Razeo
Regular
So just out of curiosity & if one may ask, why was it rejected?
I think it might be something to do with what @Ling* said in his post above. This was part of my initial concern as well. But I could not put it into words as effective as some others in this thread now have :>
Simply put is that the feature would be too good and take away from what the original M&B experinece is supposed to be and what type of game the devs are aiming for it to be. However, I still believe the idea could be implemented with some countermeasures to the AI or in a simpler form as Ling also mentioned. But I might be wrong, I'm not a developer.
I don't know how the AI behaves in battles now seeing as I haven't played the game since last April. But if it's similiar to what it was back then, anything would be better, and this was on the top of my list.
Antaeus
Squire
I think if this is to become a thing, it has to be reasonable.
I know from various dev posts, that there is a real resistance to go further towards micro manage style RTS. We shouldn't be asking for that kind of god like interface or battlefield management style. At least not in the native game.
But on the other hand, it should be vital to be able to tell your cav to charge those archers or tell your archers to fire at those infantry. I'm not sure why there would be resistance to it unless there's something in the base functionality of the AI that leads to problems. Perhaps it would make it too easy for units to target the general? I can't think of any other reason.
I know from various dev posts, that there is a real resistance to go further towards micro manage style RTS. We shouldn't be asking for that kind of god like interface or battlefield management style. At least not in the native game.
But on the other hand, it should be vital to be able to tell your cav to charge those archers or tell your archers to fire at those infantry. I'm not sure why there would be resistance to it unless there's something in the base functionality of the AI that leads to problems. Perhaps it would make it too easy for units to target the general? I can't think of any other reason.
Well, that is tremendously disappointing, but thank you very much for letting us know.
I much prefer to hear that a feature was considered but rejected, than not know if the devs even thought about it.
Unfortunately true so far but i'm dumb and still have hope, this idea is too good to let pass and was a major feature from the formations mod in warband that 99% of mods and total conversions used because of how good and necessary it was, even Viking Conquest, an official DLC included it and they are saying it takes away from what M&B should be? lol
Philozoraptor
Sergeant
Right now big problem for modders trying to improve the AI is inability to order the archers to shoot at specific formation or area and also to force cavalry to charge with couched lances to specific formation. So esentially, the kind of charge to formation order RTS camera (and also RBM) uses is only good for melee infantry, it does not work with ranged units, and it cause cavalry to under perform because only way to make cavalry at least sometimes couch is to give them enough space and speed to do it. Also if some dev is reading this, please look into archer vs cavalry / horse archer AI - at least since 1.5.6 archers dont shoot at cav unless its like 40-50 metres away, I described it in detail in a bug report.
What have I missed? Expand please. And I would not give up hope just yet. @Dejan said he would bring it up again.
However, after spending a better part of today going over the various relevant forum threads I begin to feel this understandbly, would be pretty far down the list of even suggestions.
It was? Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?
Peanut_Brother
Sergeant
I will +1 this idea every time I see it.
This makes too much sense to not include imo. As far as "things in warband that were frustrating and that I'd love to see addressed in a sequel" This is my #1 want.
This makes too much sense to not include imo. As far as "things in warband that were frustrating and that I'd love to see addressed in a sequel" This is my #1 want.
yes, warband has a classic formations mod that was implemented in most overhauls and even Viking Conquest, in that mod you get advanced formations for your troops/AI like shieldwall etc and a sytem where if you press the division button for placement and release it over an enemy formation it'll target that formation until another order is given or it's destroyed.
It worked more os less like this: Press 1 to select infantry, keep pressing and the flag for positioning will show up, release 1 over enemy formation and a message will appear in the left corner of the screen something like "infantry division attacking enemy infantry/cavalry/ranged etc
Okay wtf. I will admit I didnt play VC that much but I have around 1.5k hours in Warband spread across various mods and this is the first I've ever heard of it. I guess 3+F1+F3 was to op in that game.
Sorry I cant link you a post but a dev did say that there will be further expansion of the f key system in response to a thread complaining about the change made to face enemy/direction. I had Hope's this meant improvements but as always I'm now certain it meant nothing besides making things easier on console.
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