Search and irrelevant topics and... things.

[Darwin]

So, I've experienced this issue here and elsewhere and I guess I'm not the only one. There also was some dude on the German board who asked if we could do anything 'bout it:

Whenever you use the search function or search a topic via Google/the search engine of your choice, you get tons of topics asking for the thing you're searching and in most cases the answer is "Y U NO search??!?!! LAZY BASTARD!!". Then, after you've read the first two pages of results similar to this, you're finally lucky and find a topic where someone answered with a link to the topic that actually deals with your problem.
I think this could be at least partially solved with giving the ability of marking topics irrelevant/especially relevant to moderators, which would then make them disappear from search results/make them unavailable for spiders or would display them at a higher position in searches.

I don't know how complicated it would be to write an SMF mod, but I know that Janus can do it and asking doesn't hurt...

Opinions appreciated.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

It would be great if the "Y U NO search" posts actually contained the links to the besearched for subject in their content as well. As it stands, they're no more useful than the original post itself.

 

[xenoargh]

That would be pretty useful; we run into this problem all the time with newbie modders not being able to find stuff.  We also have a fairly serious problem with stuff just not being laid out really well; I almost think we need sub-boards for coding, level editing, art and sound-related guides and help topics, because we get so much stuff that is scattered around the forum now, it's getting to be hard to find things sometimes if you don't have a pretty good idea what you're looking for.

 

[Darwin]

Wouldn't really help as newbies didn't know what board to browse (like it's  already often the case today).
I think a more powerful and efficient search would do a better job.

 

[Caba`drin]

That would be pretty useful; we run into this problem all the time with newbie modders not being able to find stuff.  We also have a fairly serious problem with stuff just not being laid out really well; I almost think we need sub-boards for coding, level editing, art and sound-related guides and help topics, because we get so much stuff that is scattered around the forum now, it's getting to be hard to find things sometimes if you don't have a pretty good idea what you're looking for.

And here I was, thinking the reorganization I did in The Forge was useful
Though, likely for another discussion, a dump for stuff to use (OSP Resources), another for tools, and another for instructions on how to do stuff (tutorials) seems a fairly logical splitting up of The Forge's area. But perhaps I'm foolish in believing that, particularly given the number of questions with folks failing to find things.

That said I agree with Darwin that the most newbie helpful thing would be an improved search feature.

 

[xenoargh]

Oh, I should say that, compared to how it was when I first started modding here, it's a massive improvement; I remember having to go back and forth between here and two other forums just looking for certain tutorials, etc.  So yeah, maybe the main thing is some way to make search results more targeted; perhaps a "usefulness" rating and keywords?  IDK; that's an area where I don't feel comfortable offering any opinions

 

[blogs]

they're no more useful than the original post itself.

 

[Suspicous Pilgrim]

What are spiders again?

 

[Janus]

So essentially a mod which allows people to mark topics and/or posts as irrelevant or relevant, and which then makes the search functionality weight results based on that?
Sounds like a lot of work, and also sounds remarkably similar to a like/dislike or upvote/downvote system, other than the search result implications. It would also only work for topics or posts where somebody (or more likely several somebodies) has bothered to mark posts or topics using this functionality.

It might almost be simpler in the long run for people running across several such pointless threads to simply post a link in each to the relevant topic(s) they've found.

 

[AWdeV]

What are spiders again?

Eight-legged hateful abominations.

 

[killer-blead]

Tbh I blame Magorian for always saying "Use the search button" without providing a useful link

 

[xenoargh]

We all do that, though, even those of us that don't mind answering some newbie questions.  I mean, really... when it's some random newbie asking stuff that I know is literally in the stickies right above their post... eh.  That said, I think it's getting a lot harder to search for certain terms, because the Forum search is pretty much brute-force word collection, and when a word gets used a lot, or in more than one context, that is a problem. 

For example, if you're searching for an example of using some Module System operation, it can be hard to find a good reference sometimes, because people have posted things in changelogs, for example, saying they used X, but it doesn't provide any context about how X was used.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

And even with a number of useless threads, a thread with the answer is almost always on the first page of results. Usually multiple times. Google doesn't make every result a hit. Why should we expect our search function to pull that off? It's really not difficult to use.

Edit: For example, I just searched for "forum rank" which happens to be one of the most common unnecessary questions I see posted. I opened up three of the results that looked promising (numbers 1, 3, and 6) and all three of them either gave me the answer immediately or led me to it. I didn't need to go further than six results down to find multiple answers, and simply reading the name of the threads and the brief excerpts of posts shown in the search led me straight to the threads with answers.

 

[Darwin]

So essentially a mod which allows people to mark topics and/or posts as irrelevant or relevant, and which then makes the search functionality weight results based on that?
Sounds like a lot of work, and also sounds remarkably similar to a like/dislike or upvote/downvote system, other than the search result implications. It would also only work for topics or posts where somebody (or more likely several somebodies) has bothered to mark posts or topics using this functionality.

It might almost be simpler in the long run for people running across several such pointless threads to simply post a link in each to the relevant topic(s) they've found.

No. I was talking about the option for moderators to mark topics as "irrelevant", which would kick them out of the search results. The "especially relevant" would just be an optional thing and, again, just for moderators, as a voting/rating system would get annoying pretty fast, as we all can imagine.

 

[Janus]

For one thing, adding in a new search weighting method in a way that won't impact search performance is something which takes some careful work and substantial testing in the first place. Not so much so for something like this where a separate table or two simply listing topic and/or post IDs could be used to simple remove items from the search results, but on the other hand we're using a separate search indexing engine (Sphinx) which complicates things a fair bit.

Mainly though, it would again come down to moderators having to mark topics or posts as irrelevant. How often will people even think of doing something like that? What about all of the myriad irrelevant posts/topics that moderators will likely never get around to? Seems like a mammoth undertaking.

 

[Captured Joe]

Opinions appreciated.

Humble opinion: Maybe we (including me, of course) should all be a bit nicer to n0obs asking such questions, and redirect them to existing topics/post containing the right info? And, after having got the answer(s) they desire, let them delete their topic?

 

[Magorian Aximand]

Don't take away the best part of my day.



But really, most of the time the question is answered anyway, and actually searching almost always leaves a plethora of useful results. It's really not difficult. Failures in searches are nearly always user error.