Scrap the "main story"

[ClownWithABunchofFlowers]

other: add helicpoters and tanks and guns and bombs and stuf and make it all big and epic and make them fight a lot with guns and shoot like in war like ukraina make the game look like that yes add artilelry too but not like in napoleonic wars, make it artilery like big ass cannon and then add more guns like the new ones, not sword guns rfom warband it should be like AGE OF EMPIRES where every new game is more modern, you understand, that if we have guns in bannerlord it would be really cool and epic, so pleease do that, it would bereally realy really really fun, shooting the gun from horse or tank, maybe make the game like 1918 not modern so there can be BANNERLORD 2 and that will be modern like 2020 or something like tht i geuss? thanks

 

[Apocal]

This forum is beyond retarded. most people voting to keep it?
Do you guys literally have no understanding of what type of things is keeping this game in the ****ter it currently finds itself in? It's precisely because of bloat features that add nothing to the game like the "main storyline", or the much-desired "boats boats boats!!1" that every vikingboo and his mother is screaming after. There are so many missing core features that are absolutely essential for an enjoyable M&B game that are missing from Bannerlord, and people think it's a good idea to encourage Taleworlds to continue pursuing the completely failed venture known as turning sandbox M&B into a campaign story-driven M&B? I hate this industry and I hate consumers so much.

Are you having a bad day?

 

[froggyluv]

Well---> Dev Blog 18/01/18 - Q&A with Steve Negus

from Blog

"In Bannerlord, there are about five types of morality that you can try to hue to - reciprocal loyalty to friends and kin, sticking to your word, courage and willingness to sacrifice for a cause, compassion toward those who suffer, and long-term utilitarian calculation - and they'll sometimes be in conflict. I think games can offer some unique perspectives on history, not simulating events or predicting new events but simply highlighting variables, and I hope this is what we can do.”

I havent seen this or anything remotely like this.

WHAT'S THE MOST DIFFICULT THING THAT YOU SOLVED SO FAR?
“The game is not out and I don't know if we've solved this problem, but one of the big challenges is to have events that are generated by dynamic sandbox events, and are good strategies for the NPCs to adopt, but that also make sense to the player. An example of what we want to avoid, from Warband: we introduced feasts, which were a way that factions could spend resources to repair relations between lords that were damaged by the ebb and flow of war. The problem, though, was that the strategically ideal time to hold a feast was when you were in the middle of a war, which didn't seem right from a narrative perspective. So there are a lot of moving parts in the game, and we're trying to get them to work together in a way that makes sense from both a strategy and an RPG perspective.”

Ok so timing of Feasts is an issue - maybe they didnt write in the dialogue yet because they're not sure how to calibrate this?? Sounds phishy and bizarre to be honest. It seems calibrating when factions both go to war and cease war is immensely challenging this go-around im guessing due to this uncontrollable dynamic economy. These guys need to get on the same page as maybe coviid is in a sense keeping them too independent. Dammit they got the cash -emergency masked meetings in Ankara HQ NAO!!

 

[NLCRich]

I feel like currently there are really two main stories. The one about rescuing your family and the one about becoming the bannerlord. I don't think taking over the world is a bad aspiration for a story in BL. Everyone eventually does this anyway. After all, you are the bannerlord. That is the whole premise of the game. I also like being able to rescue my family. I think the eldest brother is too overpowered, he should have less skill and evolve with the player. However, if people don't like it, then they should eventually add a true sandbox mode for those that don't want to play the story, similar to how Viking Conquest had the story as optional.

That said, I do feel like the main quest is kind of grindy, especially if you've already done it once. There should be some starting advantage to your kingdom if you do it via the story versus making it from the clan menu. For example, in Viking Conquest, the draw to get the player to want to follow the story arc was the free ship you got. I think the bits about finding all the characters to tell you about that battle is kind of grindy. It doesn't seem to really fit either. They all talk about this battle, but no one talks about the banner at all really. So how does the player come to the conclusion of wanting the banner based on those stories?

The biggest things it is missing though are culture and impactful decisions. The first several parts of the story should be different depending on which culture you pick. If you are Aserai for example, you should start down there, have a different initial villain to fight (an aserai one) and with different lackeys (desert bandits). I also think the starting culture should have more impact in that you have to be from the empire to pick the empire kingdom, or from another faction to start the non-empire faction. Stories benefit from choices that actually matter.

I don't think the devs should detract from the story part of the game to allow more time for patching other parts. That doesn't make sense as writing story for the game and adding mechanics/patching bugs are two totally different jobs that require different skillsets. Detracting from the story will not benefit any other part of the game.

 

[Bannerman Man]

I havent seen this or anything remotely like this.

I believe he's referring to the five character traits.

Generosity: reciprocal loyalty to friends and kin
Honor: sticking to your word
Valor: courage and willingness to sacrifice for a cause
Mercy: compassion toward those who suffer
Calculating: long-term utilitarian calculation

I may have mixed a few of those up, and some don't quite fit, but I think the descriptions are close enough to conclude that the statement is about traits.

 

[ste636]

lol as a lover of Warband with over 6000 hours, i approve of the story mode, i loved that VC had both a story and a Sandbox mode. So just because you dont like something, please dont include all of us in your statement.

Are you Androme1? No, so why do you think I was talking about you an me??
Anyways do you have 6K hours in SP or MP?

 

[NLCRich]

I believe he's referring to the five character traits.

Generosity: reciprocal loyalty to friends and kin
Honor: sticking to your word
Valor: courage and willingness to sacrifice for a cause
Mercy: compassion toward those who suffer
Calculating: long-term utilitarian calculation

I may have mixed a few of those up, and some don't quite fit, but I think the descriptions are close enough to conclude that the statement is about traits.

This is what I took from it as well. It would be pretty awesome if there were multiple ways to handle the story and the decisions you made in the story wound up with you getting one or more of these traits depending on how you handled it. Then you would really give the player a reason to do it. For example,

Spoiler: Reveals Story Information

the guy you execute after rescuing your family, perhaps there could be an option to spare him that would result in the Mercy trait, while following through with it could get you the honor trait. That kind of thing.

 

[Timmortal]

My bad...but do you have 6K hours in SP or MP?

Almost exclusively SP, would sayd about 40-45% unmodded gameplay, but i have no way of knowing so its only by feeling. I find the storymode is a way to make atleast one playthrough feel different than all the others, as in true sandbox you can do whatever you want, you can pretty much act as a king from day one. The story in VC made you have to play at the whims of your superiors, it gave you that extra feeling of building up your reputation and power, it also gave you true enemies and not just the lord you after 100s of hours of gameplay, had almost by chance build up a exstremely negative relation. Sandbox is great because it makes you "invent" these things them selves, Story is great because it gives a far more instant emmersion.
On another note, them adding a story and implementing it, will also make them add greater tools, to implement better quest stories and ingame mechanics, that will give future modders even more to work with, instead of having to make some of those things on their own, and then force them into the game, which was a issue i heard Warband modders complain about often. So i see it as an added bonus to the future of the game, that they are actually working on these story elements, even though sandbox will likely be my go to mode and the story only have one playthrough, but who knows if the story brings in even more elements that makes it good, maybe it will get more plays out of me. One thing a sandbox start will need to add, is an option for extra family members and im pretty sure thats why they added the story as the main mode here in ea, as it gives us family members we can continue as, if we should die before getting a wife/child to take over as. Without having heirs, some sandbox playthroughs could end up being really short "Lord Timmortal savior of all Calradia, defender of the Empire, Lord of the true dawn, died to a rock thrown by a looter at level 3"

 

[Timmortal]

This is what I took from it as well. It would be pretty awesome if there were multiple ways to handle the story and the decisions you made in the story wound up with you getting one or more of these traits depending on how you handled it. Then you would really give the player a reason to do it. For example,

Spoiler: Reveals Story Information

the guy you execute after rescuing your family, perhaps there could be an option to spare him that would result in the Mercy trait, while following through with it could get you the honor trait. That kind of thing.

also saving that guy could lead to future quests where he gives you "evil" options to the story quests, like instead of saving the fair maiden lady and returning her home, abduct her and ransom her.
Could also lead to a story option of either marrying into a faction (taking her home) or out of a faction (abducting her)

 

[froggyluv]

also saving that guy could lead to future quests where he gives you "evil" options to the story quests, like instead of saving the fair maiden lady and returning her home, abduct her and ransom her.
Could also lead to a story option of either marrying into a faction (taking her home) or out of a faction (abducting her)

That type of storyline branching is EXACTLY what i believe most sandboxers are looking for and really not that hard to implement to a committed small group. But if however they thought they could easily add that after the fact....well i believe that is what we're witnessing now

 

[NLCRich]

also saving that guy could lead to future quests where he gives you "evil" options to the story quests, like instead of saving the fair maiden lady and returning her home, abduct her and ransom her.
Could also lead to a story option of either marrying into a faction (taking her home) or out of a faction (abducting her)

Yes... I like where you're going with that. Adding these sorts of dynamics to the story would help make it a lot more meaningful, especially if the player gets options that affect future outcomes. Another thing they could do is add side story arcs. Or abandon the concept of a main story in favor of several side story arcs that are optional to the player. One of these could be a bandit type arc. Hopefully the devs are able to do more with it and make it more worthwhile for the player. I am definitely pro-story when it comes to BL.

However, at the same time, I can agree that in its current form the story just isn't much fun... it's definitely a work in progress.

 

[Timmortal]

Yes... I like where you're going with that. Adding these sorts of dynamics to the story would help make it a lot more meaningful, especially if the player gets options that affect future outcomes. Another thing they could do is add side story arcs. Or abandon the concept of a main story in favor of several side story arcs that are optional to the player. One of these could be a bandit type arc. Hopefully the devs are able to do more with it and make it more worthwhile for the player. I am definitely pro-story when it comes to BL.

However, at the same time, I can agree that in its current form the story just isn't much fun... it's definitely a work in progress.

I hope Taleworlds expand story more and i exspect modders to do it. I also exspect to be able to, like in VC to turn story/sandbox on and off when we have full release or atleast after a while like with VC. Right now the story is more like an expanded tutorial teaching you some core concepts and adding much needed family members and i can understand people not being satisfied with it, if they think this is the completed version of it.

 

[Apocal]

from Blog

"In Bannerlord, there are about five types of morality that you can try to hue to - reciprocal loyalty to friends and kin, sticking to your word, courage and willingness to sacrifice for a cause, compassion toward those who suffer, and long-term utilitarian calculation - and they'll sometimes be in conflict. I think games can offer some unique perspectives on history, not simulating events or predicting new events but simply highlighting variables, and I hope this is what we can do.”

I havent seen this or anything remotely like this.

It is a wordy way of describing the traits: Generosity, Honor, Daring, Mercy and Calculating. In that order.

 

[froggyluv]

I believe he's referring to the five character traits.

Generosity: reciprocal loyalty to friends and kin
Honor: sticking to your word
Valor: courage and willingness to sacrifice for a cause
Mercy: compassion toward those who suffer
Calculating: long-term utilitarian calculation

I may have mixed a few of those up, and some don't quite fit, but I think the descriptions are close enough to conclude that the statement is about traits.

Sorry I barely notice these in game -think i saw i was Valorous somewhere once. Do these play into the game/story in any meaningful way? Do things you do actually effect these traits and peoples reactions to you? If you mean the 'Dialogue Multiple Choice"game than no thanks -that whole thing feels wonky

 

[NLCRich]

Sorry I barely notice these in game -think i saw i was Valorous somewhere once. Do these play into the game/story in any meaningful way? Do things you do actually effect these traits and peoples reactions to you? If you mean the 'Dialogue Multiple Choice"game than no thanks -that whole thing feels wonky

As far as I can tell, the only benefit is in conversations, with conversation choices related to that trait, you have a MUCH higher chance of success.

 

[NLCRich]

As far as I can tell, the only benefit is in conversations, with conversation choices related to that trait, you have a MUCH higher chance of success.

To add to my prior post, having one or more of these traits becomes most beneficial later in the game when you are trying to recruit clans to your kingdom. However, they can also be useful earlier in the game via quests that involve the same types of dialogues, increasing your chances for peaceful resolution of quests versus violent.

 

[Kingy]

This is a sandbox game, the story is almost always what you make of it. Such as it is the main storyline is usually a distraction; a subplot to be completed (or ignored) alongside the original and developing goals you define for yourself on each playthrough. For that reason I don't care for it and frankly find it annoying. I do hope they will release an alternate gamemode that removes it upon the games final release.

That said you could make the story more interesting, at the moment the narrative does not alter the games world until the very end, and when it does it feels rather arbitrary. You could have the world and the factions interact with the story a great deal more: Peasant uprisings in Vlandia, a religous schism amongst the Aserai, a changing climate reducing the once fertile steppe to barren tundra, forcing the Khuzait into a desperate advance westwards. You could do a lot, there are plenty of historical sources to draw inspiration from. Every condition would have its trigger, hinted at through dialogue so the player wouldn't unwittingly embark upon something he/she wasn't prepared for.

Maybe this is something to be explored more in various DLC's, but if it is then why bother with a story in the first place? I think a lot people would be prepared to pay for a more fleshed out campaign mode.

In my mind I keep comparing this game to Kenshi, another open world sandbox rpg. Kenshi does not have a direct storyline, but paradoxically, it is rich in both story and lore. Everything is explained passively, through seemingly spontanious dialogue with various characters and events that demonstrate the tense relationships between the various factions. There is no hand holding and the game does not point you in any particular direction, the story is there if you want it and if it doesn't interest you it won't get in your way.

Maybe the comparison is a slightly unfair one, Kenshi does have a heavy emphasis on exploration which lends itself to this kind of storytelling. But I do think Bannerlord would be better with a more passive story.

 

[Apocal]

Sorry I barely notice these in game -think i saw i was Valorous somewhere once. Do these play into the game/story in any meaningful way? Do things you do actually effect these traits and peoples reactions to you? If you mean the 'Dialogue Multiple Choice"game than no thanks -that whole thing feels wonky

Daring (Valor 1) makes bandits much more likely to surrender to you. There might be other effects but I haven't really noticed them. And yes, things you do affect the traits. You gain or lose them ased on actions; one in particular, executing people, gives you the negative Honor trait -- somethat that annoys everyone because it should be Cruel, not Devious.

 

[froggyluv]

Daring (Valor 1) makes bandits much more likely to surrender to you. There might be other effects but I haven't really noticed them. And yes, things you do affect the traits. You gain or lose them ased on actions; one in particular, executing people, gives you the negative Honor trait -- somethat that annoys everyone because it should be Cruel, not Devious.

Interesting I knew none of this. That would certainly make the game a bit deeper -would love to know more about this

 

[Bob Gnarly]

Daring (Valor 1) makes bandits much more likely to surrender to you. There might be other effects but I haven't really noticed them. And yes, things you do affect the traits. You gain or lose them ased on actions; one in particular, executing people, gives you the negative Honor trait -- somethat that annoys everyone because it should be Cruel, not Devious.

Learn something new everyday