Schools in medieval times

[Mama Sumae]

Currently we are able to build schools in small towns in M&B and i have been wondering if it suits the era on which the game is based.

I came to believe that the existence of schools in small medieval towns wasn’t very likely. Most of the education sources of the era were religious and after all what are you going to teach in a small town school?  How to raise cattle?

In most cases only clergy, nobility and rich merchants would have accesses to education and in the case of the last two private tutors would be preferred.

Commoners would more likely learn a trade or skill from experienced people.


So what’s with buildings schools? And do correct me if i am wrong on what I just said

 

[Adorno]

Yo Mama, I believe you're right 

In Europe schools are a fairly new phenomenon and the only education in the dark ages was religious.
Later this was turned into formal education through trivial (spelling?) at universities, which was based on
Christianity. but schools for common people didn't exist to my knowledge.
(I don't know about outside Europe).

 

[rageshrub]

meh, it's a fantasy setting, which leaves the devs free to do anything they like, as long as it makes some kind of sense

 

[Lord Sami]

So are you suggesting that we remove the option of building schools completely? Or do you have an alternative in mind?

(Edit: question not pointed to rageshrub.)

 

[mdk31]

I think the school could possibly be counted as religious. After all, a lot of those religious schools were used to influence the students to be more loyal to their state and their liege. The schools in the villages increase loyalty. I think it works quite well.

 

[Hunterh]

It could be a "seminary" or some such thing, but not that much thought went into "the village can have a school." There were ancient academies before a certain religion hijacked most of them...exactly what size a town had to be to support one, or what effects that might have on the town besides increased population from other towns, I can not say.

 

[Jahoba]

I think the game is fine the way it is without all the religion stuff that makes European history so boring. 

 

[Mama Sumae]

So are you suggesting that we remove the option of building schools completely? Or do you have an alternative in mind?

(Edit: question not pointed to rageshrub.)

Well i see no sense on them so i see no reason for them to exist in game.

If you don’t like the idea of losing a game feature which i understand maybe we can replace it with some sort of basic medical provider.  The existence of a "doctor/healer/whatever" on a town was extremely desired even with the small medical knowledge of the time (the game actually disregards this due to the powerful medical skills available).

So maybe we can have an option to build some sort of a “doctor” accommodation and later on a separate quest to recruit one from nearby settlements. Mind me the accommodation wouldn’t be any sort of clinic just a simple house for the doctor. 



Regarding religious schools, they only make sense in bigger towns not the small villages.
 

 

[Triosta]

What do you think a school from the dark ages would teach?

Reading: People gots to learn to read or else no one can understand notices from their lord!
Writing: People gots to learn to write or else no one can write 'For a good time call jezabelle' on the latrine stall wall.
Mathematics: 1 cattle is 45 denars. 2 cattle is 90 denars. 4 cattle is 180 denars.
Medicine: Leeches, leeches, and more leeches.

 

[MasacruTheArcher]

What do you think a school from the dark ages would teach?

Reading: People gots to learn to read or else no one can understand notices from their lord!
Writing: People gots to learn to write or else no one can write 'For a good time call jezabelle' on the latrine stall wall.
Mathematics: 1 cattle is 45 denars. 2 cattle is 90 denars. 4 cattle is 180 denars.
Medicine: Leeches, leeches, and more leeches.

Good point , i thought at that too.So i guess we found the answer ....in my opinion , if the schools wouldn't be many in that era , then everyone could be completily dumb.Not knowing how to price an item or to buy more vegetables , also the Builders.... weren't they teached to school how to do it ?

Oh well and i think that a small village on that time had over 150 population ? Or less ?Correct me if i am wrong ,i have no idea .But i don';t think there were villages formed from 5 peasants.

 

[Triosta]

Ummm, it was mostly trial and error when it came to, like, someone building their own house. Not all peasants are skilled in carpentry. However I see no problem with a log cabin. Two logs, make a hole in the ends, drop two more logs in the holes, etc, over and over until it's fairly tall. Then make a roof of overlapping boards and top it with straw thatch.

Bungled log cabins turned into tool sheds, and villages had 500 tool sheds before they mastered log cabin crafting.

 

[Berpol]

If I remembered correct at the time portrayed education was untertaken by
[list type=decimal]
[*]your parents and grandparents and
[*]the village priest.
[/list]
I interpreted the addition of a school as some rooms and simple provitions for the priest to do this.

Building something like a shed or a house wasn't at that time something you actually learned in a school but something you learn by watching and helping someone to do it. Before you build your own house you will have helped your father repairing his house several times.

 

[Mama Sumae]

What do you think a school from the dark ages would teach?

Reading: People gots to learn to read or else no one can understand notices from their lord!
Writing: People gots to learn to write or else no one can write 'For a good time call jezabelle' on the latrine stall wall.
Mathematics: 1 cattle is 45 denars. 2 cattle is 90 denars. 4 cattle is 180 denars.
Medicine: Leeches, leeches, and more leeches.

Are you serious? you telling me you would have to go to school in  order to be able to count stuff  Go to rural areas in Afghanistan and ask how many of have seen a school then try to buy 10 horses for the price of 9 and see what they tell you. 

Do you have any idea of illiteracy levels on that era? Even in 1960s more than half percentage of the TOTAL population on the world was illiterate. Nowadays you still find countries with illiteracy levels between 25% to 30%


Literacy itself was deemed dangerous in medieval times both by the Clergy and Nobility even in modern times many were the leaders that said an educated population is hard to rule. Never mind education, a book was a commodity in the era; remember there was no mass printing systems.   


Any farmer would be glad to tell you that letters and books dont bring potatoes out of the ground.

 

[Erwin]

I think he was being funny...

 

[Mama Sumae]

I think he was being funny...

you sure?  got me all worked up well at least MasacruTheArcher wasnt surelly.     

 

[Archonsod]

Currently we are able to build schools in small towns in M&B and i have been wondering if it suits the era on which the game is based.

Any population centre would have at least one school, some more.

I came to believe that the existence of schools in small medieval towns wasn’t very likely. Most of the education sources of the era were religious and after all what are you going to teach in a small town school?  How to raise cattle?

Usually whatever the teacher felt like teaching. There was no official standards for either teachers or education. Any 'educated' man would likely be capable of teaching literacy and numeracy to some extent, plus whatever they deemed of interest. Agricultural practice and animal husbandry could well be on the curriculum, particularly if the teacher was the local village elder.
Actual time spent in education would depend on the location. Rural schools would cycle depending on the agricultural year. For most of the year, those too young to work the fields would spend half the day in school, usually receiving instruction from those too old to work the fields. When there were no crops to tend then the older children (and in some cases adults) would also spend time at school. Religious instruction would usually be done in the church rather than the school, though teaching was a favourite way of earning food and board for wandering priests or monks, particularly during winter.

In most cases only clergy, nobility and rich merchants would have accesses to education and in the case of the last two private tutors would be preferred.

Not all the time. In general, any non-urban nobility had the choice of engaging a private tutor or sending their children to a boarding school. Urban lords would have had the option of a local school, probably with an eye to getting a child enrolled in the local academy or university. With the nobility though a lot would depend on siblings; traditionally the first born took over the family business, the second went to the military and the third the church.
Education for women was a lot less robust, generally they'd be taught basic literacy and numeracy alongside the boys up until age six or seven, at which point they would either leave education or be sent to the medieval equivalent of a "finishing school" to learn the arts and behaviour appropriate to a lady. The middle classes may or may not have received a slightly more pertinent education, as evinced by The Book of Margery Kempe for example.

 

[Erwin]

*snip!*

Do you have any sources for all that? Coz that ain't what they told me in school.

 

[Mama Sumae]

*snip!*

Do you have any sources for all that? Coz that ain't what they told me in school.

I am a bit struck myself too especially with the quote " Any population centre would have at least one school, some more. "  i would like to know which period and area are you refering to. 

 

[Archonsod]

Plenty of quotes to dispel the preconceptions they teach in school here Can't find any direct sources from a quick search unfortunately.

I am a bit struck myself too especially with the quote " Any population centre would have at least one school, some more. "  i would like to know which period and area are you refering to.

Anywhere from Ancient Egypt to modern London Schools have probably been with us since the tribe first figured out they were a good way to keep the old and young occupied while they were busy finding lunch. It's not access to schooling which has changed, it's how effective an education it gives. Some schools took education seriously and give us men like Chaucer. Others (sometimes in the same town) would be more accurately called day care centres. It's not until the enlightenment that people start thinking it might be a good idea if schools actually taught stuff.

 

[Bismarck]

I don't think there were schools in the medieval times. The monks and sholars were the educated people in that era and if they had time and were nice, they taught the peasants how to read, write and a bit of maths so that the peasants wouldn't be cheated on the market.
The rich of course could afford a much better education.