Scandinavian Factions (Denmark, Norway, Sweden)

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It's been awfully quiet in this thread lately :S

I'm assuming that an update is coming fairly soon so I just wanted you to change Birger Jarl's facecode, he looks way too old, I'm not sure if this is how it works but I tweaked around a little in the character creation with Edit Mode turned on and came up with this "0x0000000a490010140b6d9627a354353c00000000001cb49c0000000000000000" is it possible for you to just apply it? It would be greatly appreciated!  :grin:
 
Yes, very easily done and thank you.

I'm working on the new troop trees for Africa and Egypt.  It takes a fair amount of work to balance it properly.
 
I know, it's like we have nothing to add :razz:

I've just finished my medieval history course at the university of Stockholm, so when I get around to playing more M&B, I'll pick up on some stuff which might need fixing... for the time being... I want to bring up the troop tree again xD sorry!

I assume the whole point of the mod is historically correct, but balanced? I therefore want to bring back something we aired early, but dismissed due to balancing problems. The nature of the scandinavian troop tree.

Scandinavia during the middle ages was unbelievably sparsely populated. Not only were we fewer than almost everywhere else in europe, but we were spread over a huge landmass. Considering the population numbers after the plague, 750,000 in Denmark, 600,000 in Sweden, and 200,000 in Norway, 1,500,000 all in all (numbers taken from Lars-Olof Larsson's "Kalmarunionens tid"), and the fact that the plague took about 1/3 of the population in Sweden and Denmark, and half of the Norwegian one, would put the population of Scandinavia at ca 1,125,000 in Denmark, 900,000 in Sweden, and 400,000 in Norway: 2,425,000 people in Scandinavia in total. I don't have any particular numbers in europe to compare it with, I'm too lazy to dig through Blockmans and Hoppenbrouwers "Intro to Medieval Europe 350-1550" for any sort of data on that atm, but if we assume the 1/3 rule held in the rest of europe, which it probably did, then the percentage of scandinavians is still low compared to the rest of europe, over a landmass which is pretty vast... Scandinavian armies should therefore be WAY SMALLER than those of other countries, especially the Norwegian and Swedish ones. Scandinavia at the time wasn't really feudal either (with denmark as a possible exception, I know denmark had a large number of unfree peasants during the kalmar union 150 years after mod start, but dunno how it was during this period), with mostly free peasants, the banal revolution never took of in the north. We kept the leidang/ledang/ledung system, where different parts of the country would be required to see to the equipment of a ship of varying size and the equipment of it's crew, as well as providing the crew itself from amongst it's population. The result is a highly effective, well-trained, and well-armed militia. Scandinavian city-dwellers are also nothing to scoff at, and the kings retinue was large and "standing" to some extent. Scandinavia is, however, still on the periphery, and our frälse/frælse/frelse (nobility before we introduced the word "adel", because they were tax-exempt) was much poorer than that of the continent. We therefore need less access to heavy knights, and better access to an armed militia.

I propose therefore that we completely revamp the system for scandinavian recruitment. Yours, and those of all scandinavian lords except the king, has a permanent company which only consists of mounted castle units. Recruiting units from villages and towns should be virtually useless, but you and the lords can "call a leidang" instead... this would work a bit like a campaign, but instead of lords gathering and following the marshall from around the kingdom, then nearby villages would spawn leidang parties of numerous and highly trained militia, and these would gather on you, and actually join your party, allowing scandinavian forces to utilise their manpower more effectively, but limiting the time the armies are sustainable by setting severe morale-limitations which increase exponentially over time. investing points in morale-boosting skills would therefore be worthwhile, and keeping food-stocks up is necessary, as well as actually doing something with your army, since running around and trading drastically drops morale, you actually have to fight someone... anyway, morale gets low and then your troops desert en masse, until you are left with your original party (which isn't affected by the desertion) - losses sustained.

Campaigns would of course involve all lords who want to participate calling leidangs, thereby bolstering their forces, and then gathering on the marshall. They could therefore raise reasonably large armies very fast, to counter invasion and to make invasions of their own, but can't go around besieging castles for endless periods, or ravage entire countrysides, since their troops start deserting pretty quickly.

I think this would greatly improve the historical accuracy of the scandinavian factions, and set them apart from their western-european counterparts, as well as open up for the possibility of historical recruitment for the different cultures (western, eastern, northern, latin empire, crusader, muslim).

question is, what do people think, and is this feasible to code into the system?

P.S.
one more suggestion, sea travel speeds should be substantially increased, as well as travel during the winter. traveling by ship is a matter of weeks from copenhagen to nidaros in 1400, as opposed to months by land. Winter is also the war-season for land-based campaigns in scandinavia, as the roads are frozen, allowing for swift travel both by foot and by sled, so increased movement on areas covered with snow on the map.
 
You know an ancient Lithuanian word for Scandinavians are "Žuvėdai". Which is a combination of two words - Žuvis(fish) and ėsti(eating, in not a very nice way. Ussualy used to for animals). So literaly Žuvėdai - FishEaters. This offcourse, not intented as an insult by me(to be sure, I'm not misunderstood). I just remebered it and though I would share as it might interest you.

Ermus 说:
Now I must seem like a total d-bag D:
HAHA!

While i'm not strongly against the idea... But recruiting and leveling up your troops is kinda half of the game. And whitout doing battle with them, there aren't that much to do right now. It also would render the training skill useless(more or less) and being a rpg fan, that not realy apealing to me. But other then that, I have no objection.
 
Well, denmark, being the highest populated country in scandinavia at the time, already has 4 cities, 8 castles and 16 villages, whereas sweden and norway both have 3 cities, 6 castles and 12 villages... Denmark then has the largest fortifications in jylland (both north to protect from norway, and to control the sound, and south along the border to Germany), and Skåne/Halland (Again, to protect against sweden, and to control the sound)... Sjælland and Fyn are not as heavily fortified because they are not border areas. However, if you look at it, Fyn has one castles and one village, whereas Sjælland in fact has the capital city, and IIRC two castles, along with 4 villages, and has probably the largest population over such a small area in the whole game :razz: The largest states are all spread out, and Denmark has 3 cities, 8 castles, and 14 villages spread out across the tiny area that is historical denmark, + Reval and it's associated Villages. Recruiting and repulsing invasions in denmark is the easiest task in the world I believe. Campaigning in the east is more of a challenge however...
 
As a bloody Norwegian i want more under norwegian control!  :lol:  :mrgreen: , Some of north america (just give us all of it, that would be cool!) and give the denmark iceland, and sweden finland!  :twisted:
 
Is it only me that has noticed that the Nordic troops' upkeep is really high when compared to any others? The basic Huskarls have upkeep of somewhere around 50 and are not particularly tough. And the crossbowmen of the next level have nearly 80! Compared to, for example, Iberian crossbowmen they are not much better and their upkeep is nearly half.

I can buy it if the point is to represent their relative scarcity, but it does make keeping a nordic army quite tough!
 
Hey guys.
I couldn't help but notice that the ruler of Sweden is Birger Jarl. This is partly correct as Birger Jarl was the kings father and his closest man. The kings name was Valdemar Birgersson. Birger Jarl had more power then the king and was the one pulling the strings but it was still his son who was the ruler of Sweden. I just thought I should mention it and if this has been brought up earlier I apologize.

Good luck in the future!

Nils Dacke
 
Yes, it has been discussed earlier in this thread and it is a conscious choice.


Regards,



@Baronwes,

unit upkeeps are as far as I know still WIP.
 
As of the few latest revisions the upkeep should be more or less as it should be. Becouse I didin't get any feedback on it - is too low or too high, I presume that it's just about right. But I probably going to lower them just a little bit more. The upkeep is calculated based on there helmet and armor they have.

The upkeep rises if the unit is higher then level 20. As well as if he has a horse.
 
DrTomas 说:
As of the few latest revisions the upkeep should be more or less as it should be. Becouse I didin't get any feedback on it - is too low or too high, I presume that it's just about right. But I probably going to lower them just a little bit more. The upkeep is calculated based on there helmet and armor they have.

The upkeep rises if the unit is higher then level 20. As well as if he has a horse.

then maybe it's an issue of equipment prices?
 
The armor value is taken, not the price.

Perhaps you should upgrade to the latest revision? In rev23 Huskarls upkeep price should be around 20. In the next revision they should be around 10-15.
 
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