Say cheese: reenactment style
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For those aware of the Canadian chap behind the youtube account "BritishMuzzleloaders" He's made a new video that's pretty enjoyable to watch about the battle of Tel El Kebir during the Anglo-Egyptian war.
I'm not sure this should even be posted here, we need a stickied thread about anything historical.
I'm not sure this should even be posted here, we need a stickied thread about anything historical.
Ililsa
Master Knight
A picture of myself doing my man-at-arms shtick on the left from an event at Richmond Castle in May, I think. Thanks to a photographer who's since joined the group.
If it looks like my coif is partially blinding me, it probably was. The real benefit of this picture is you can't see the mess that my sleeves were back then when the mail was more or less fresh off the rack.
If it looks like my coif is partially blinding me, it probably was. The real benefit of this picture is you can't see the mess that my sleeves were back then when the mail was more or less fresh off the rack.
Yea, coif needs a bit of rework, but it's not bad, all the rest looking good otherwise. Join my 13th century armors facebook group, I post some nice material there from time to time: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1565309087098768
Ililsa
Master Knight
I would but I'm a none facebook-er, much to the chagrin of my group sometimes.
The coif isn't going to be perfect until it's attachable to the rest of my hauberk so it's tauter and actually keeps the shape of my jaw and neck, as in effigies. The strap of my helmet helps a little, but not a great deal, but it and the hauberk have come along leaps and bounds since then.
Regular clothing is my real goal for the next season though, now that I've got richer combat gear I want to reflect that in the rest of my outfit, a better tunic and some garters are a must.
The coif isn't going to be perfect until it's attachable to the rest of my hauberk so it's tauter and actually keeps the shape of my jaw and neck, as in effigies. The strap of my helmet helps a little, but not a great deal, but it and the hauberk have come along leaps and bounds since then.
Regular clothing is my real goal for the next season though, now that I've got richer combat gear I want to reflect that in the rest of my outfit, a better tunic and some garters are a must.
Looking good! Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those mail mittens supposed to be an integral part of the larger coat with leather-lined palms and slits to use your hands unencumbered rather than separate mittens? Is that a budget constraint, a conscious decision or just me being misinformed?
Ililsa
Master Knight
You're correct. Some people in my group have their mufflers properly integrated, some don't, basically just because then they wouldn't be able to use those gloves for training and would either have to wear their hauberk all the time or get another pair. Either one is a bit of a pain because our gloves are made in-group. I'm having the debate about whether to integrate or not myself at the minute.
As far as I can tell, all 13th century hand protection should be integrated onto something, even before my mufflers had their mail attached they should have been part of my gambeson to be 100% accurate.
As far as I can tell, all 13th century hand protection should be integrated onto something, even before my mufflers had their mail attached they should have been part of my gambeson to be 100% accurate.
It is not the only option for 13th century, you can go with separate mittens/ 3 and 5 fingered gloves or even gauntlets of baleen or iron (1296 Statutes of the Paris Armourers - article 5, covers gauntlets of baleen, and article 6 covers gauntlets of iron)
http://take.ms/fvasH
http://take.ms/FsEFo
http://take.ms/oOqtJ
http://take.ms/qPC3r
http://take.ms/LH6Kk
http://take.ms/7a3PH
If you go with sepparate gloves, make sure to do the proper cuff for 13th century, cuff is very distinctive, it basicaly follows the shape of 13c leather gloves like this:
http://take.ms/fvasH
http://take.ms/FsEFo
http://take.ms/oOqtJ
http://take.ms/qPC3r
http://take.ms/LH6Kk
http://take.ms/7a3PH
Ililsa
Master Knight
Some of those are a little late for me, but those three fingered ones are very cool and may be about right.
I'll probably be getting some 3 fingered gloves in the off season because some of the early shows last year were bloody cold, and I'd like to have a full wardrobe anyway.
I'll probably be getting some 3 fingered gloves in the off season because some of the early shows last year were bloody cold, and I'd like to have a full wardrobe anyway.
I am hoping to get a late XII - early XIII century kit myself. Any advice on where to purchase the individual parts? I've tried to do some research but it seems that most of the clothing on sale tends to compromise accuracy for the sake of comfort (for instance applying rubber soles and heels on medieval shoes and ankle boots). I promise I'll make more on-topic posts as soon as I have something to show 
Ililsa
Master Knight
Not sure about where to buy footwear on mainland europe, but I get a lot of clothing from medieval-market.com and one of their founders - Lady Malina - also has a separate business now here etsy.com/shop/LadyMalinaCom I remember Zimke mentioning his hose were made by her and I'm considering ordering a cotte from her soon as it seems like nowhere high quality does the type I'm after.
Malina split with medieval-market guys few years ago. You can custom order shoe, but that could be pricey for you. Mine were 80 euros for example.
This folks make some very fine shoes: https://www.facebook.com/NPhistoricalshoes/
all the rest that is also acceptable:
https://www.facebook.com/caspianshoes/
https://www.facebook.com/kram.msciwoja
And yes, Malina has the highest quality to offer.
Depends what you need, for example if you need casted items, or quality premade belts go with Lorifactor Lewandowski (good price/quality ratio), I bought those things from lot of different manufacturers, but he is still the best around: http://www.lorifactor.com/index.php
If you wan't to go cheaper with acceptable quality: http://new.armourandcastings.com/
For clothing, as always, custom order from Malina. I can't tell you mor ethen this, it will pay off on longer run, I wasted lot of money till I learned that it is better to invest few bucks more then to regret it after.
I have ordered some items from this girl, she is really good as well and has lot of experience for 13th century clothing, with competitive prices: https://www.facebook.com/carolstroje/
For arms and armor, depends on exact piece you need, when you make up your mind for something, contact me and I will find you good craftsman.
This folks make some very fine shoes: https://www.facebook.com/NPhistoricalshoes/
all the rest that is also acceptable:
https://www.facebook.com/caspianshoes/
https://www.facebook.com/kram.msciwoja
And yes, Malina has the highest quality to offer.
GodHandApostole said:I am hoping to get a late XII - early XIII century kit myself. Any advice on where to purchase the individual parts? I've tried to do some research but it seems that most of the clothing on sale tends to compromise accuracy for the sake of comfort (for instance applying rubber soles and heels on medieval shoes and ankle boots). I promise I'll make more on-topic posts as soon as I have something to show
Depends what you need, for example if you need casted items, or quality premade belts go with Lorifactor Lewandowski (good price/quality ratio), I bought those things from lot of different manufacturers, but he is still the best around: http://www.lorifactor.com/index.php
If you wan't to go cheaper with acceptable quality: http://new.armourandcastings.com/
For clothing, as always, custom order from Malina. I can't tell you mor ethen this, it will pay off on longer run, I wasted lot of money till I learned that it is better to invest few bucks more then to regret it after.
I have ordered some items from this girl, she is really good as well and has lot of experience for 13th century clothing, with competitive prices: https://www.facebook.com/carolstroje/
For arms and armor, depends on exact piece you need, when you make up your mind for something, contact me and I will find you good craftsman.
Thank you both for your answers 
I will look a bit more into those sites and pages and see if I can start from the bottom, so to speak, get a soft kit first.
As far as armour goes, however, I would rather wait, invest a bit more but get a proper, full mail harness with coif, mittens and closed hoses. Morgan bible style, without surcoat essentially.
I will look a bit more into those sites and pages and see if I can start from the bottom, so to speak, get a soft kit first. As far as armour goes, however, I would rather wait, invest a bit more but get a proper, full mail harness with coif, mittens and closed hoses. Morgan bible style, without surcoat essentially.
AelleCyning
Sergeant
Thought I'd ask here: since we have no idea what sort of padding people used during the migration period, what do reenactors find works best? They obviously had some since chainmail with no padding is terrible.
Mamlaz
Sergeant Knight at Arms
We do have an idea, the issue is merely the lack of data and continuous debates about the topic.
For instance, a certain source states felt being used as early as the 4th-5th century;
"An anonymous late 4th or early 5th century AD military manual, the De Rebus Bellicis, identifies the thoracomachus as a thick cloth garment consisting of many layers of felt, with linen or leather pteruges attached to protect the wearer's upper arms and legs."
- War and Warfare in Late Antiquity, page 529, Alexander Sarantis, Neil Christie
Now, this is of course not a blanket statement for everyone, but it does push the padding argument as back as the 4th century AD.
Now, the issue of non-Roman peoples not using padding may, in my opinion, simply lie in the obvious difference in military production and gear.
Namely, considering that continental European folk all probably had some form of winter clothing, I suspect that they could have simply used that thicker clothing, in various forms, for padding instead of having a completely separate military garment for that purpose.
Thus, sources do not mention padding under a special term for most tribes/factions because most tribes/factions did not construct garments specifically designed for under mail padding, but merely used thicker clothing.
For instance, a certain source states felt being used as early as the 4th-5th century;
"An anonymous late 4th or early 5th century AD military manual, the De Rebus Bellicis, identifies the thoracomachus as a thick cloth garment consisting of many layers of felt, with linen or leather pteruges attached to protect the wearer's upper arms and legs."
- War and Warfare in Late Antiquity, page 529, Alexander Sarantis, Neil Christie
Now, this is of course not a blanket statement for everyone, but it does push the padding argument as back as the 4th century AD.
Now, the issue of non-Roman peoples not using padding may, in my opinion, simply lie in the obvious difference in military production and gear.
Namely, considering that continental European folk all probably had some form of winter clothing, I suspect that they could have simply used that thicker clothing, in various forms, for padding instead of having a completely separate military garment for that purpose.
Thus, sources do not mention padding under a special term for most tribes/factions because most tribes/factions did not construct garments specifically designed for under mail padding, but merely used thicker clothing.
AelleCyning
Sergeant
It's not even a matter of "ooh, they might not have!". If you get hit wearing only a sheer tunic and chainmail, precious little of the shock will be absorbed. Your organs will rupture, your bones will fracture, and the rings will be SLAMMED into your flesh. Chainmail protects against an edge, and absorbs a bit of shock. Padding is vital.
Thanks for that info, though. The thoromachus just seems to be the intermediary between the subarmalis and gambeson, though.
Thanks for that info, though. The thoromachus just seems to be the intermediary between the subarmalis and gambeson, though.
Is there a doctor in the house?!
Mask design by Pavelcraft on Etsy.com
Mask design by Pavelcraft on Etsy.com
My reenacting year has begun, and what a beginning it was to!
Every couple of years in Almansa, Spain, they commemorate the Battle of Almansa, which took place on April 25th, 1707, during the War of Spanish Succession. It was an interesting battle, with French & Spanish defending against British, Catalan, Dutch & Portuguese troops. Ironically Franco-Spanish army was led by an Englishman, and the Anglo-Catalan-Dutch-Portuguese army was led by a Frenchman! Upshot was that the Allied army was defeated, although not before the British contingent caused a few heart attacks by breaking through the enemy lines twice before they were pushed back. As such, being the only group doing English soldiers of the period, our group, The Queen's Regiment, were invited over to take part.
It was a glorious event, brilliant from start to finish - and that isn't just because the people running it paid for hotel rooms for us! Although, a hot shower each morning, as well as coffee and hot food, was rather pleasant. Anyhow, we marched around Almansa multiple times, took part in a flag raising ceremony & commemoration for the battle, drank alcohol and ate good food, and fought in two of the best reenactment battles I've been part of. It was all go from start to finish; we were firing almost constantly, except for when we were being beaten towards the end (as per the script). On the first day alone I burnt through 18 cartridges (my bag held 24 cartridges), but on the second we shot less (11 cartridges left out of 24, and I double shotted a couple to get a bigger bang). Anyhow, there are photographs up already, so I'll post what I've found online so far:
Every couple of years in Almansa, Spain, they commemorate the Battle of Almansa, which took place on April 25th, 1707, during the War of Spanish Succession. It was an interesting battle, with French & Spanish defending against British, Catalan, Dutch & Portuguese troops. Ironically Franco-Spanish army was led by an Englishman, and the Anglo-Catalan-Dutch-Portuguese army was led by a Frenchman! Upshot was that the Allied army was defeated, although not before the British contingent caused a few heart attacks by breaking through the enemy lines twice before they were pushed back. As such, being the only group doing English soldiers of the period, our group, The Queen's Regiment, were invited over to take part.
It was a glorious event, brilliant from start to finish - and that isn't just because the people running it paid for hotel rooms for us! Although, a hot shower each morning, as well as coffee and hot food, was rather pleasant. Anyhow, we marched around Almansa multiple times, took part in a flag raising ceremony & commemoration for the battle, drank alcohol and ate good food, and fought in two of the best reenactment battles I've been part of. It was all go from start to finish; we were firing almost constantly, except for when we were being beaten towards the end (as per the script). On the first day alone I burnt through 18 cartridges (my bag held 24 cartridges), but on the second we shot less (11 cartridges left out of 24, and I double shotted a couple to get a bigger bang). Anyhow, there are photographs up already, so I'll post what I've found online so far:
