Sallying out while allied army is attacking the besiegers

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Ichon

Sergeant
Roguery being able to slowly subdue towns until they rebel and then a dilemma where a crime lord can support the rebels, support the 'rightful' owners, or claim it as their own.

Then if crime lords could lead raids on other gang leaders of specific factions working as a 'behind' the scenes mercenary where they have to infiltrate the town successfully, take out the guards, then sneak in a postern gate or thru the sewers and fight thugs etc with only brigand/raiders troops being able to go on the missions.

The current mechanic for sieges is really weird- attackers either attack the siege camp where 100% of the army then responds, try to break thru (which is a nice mechanic but would be more fun if players could manually attempt to run a gauntlet (cavalry or infantry with speed perks + banner) or a night raid to attempt to burn down the siege engines, command tent, or supplies with escalating level of difficulty. Siege engines basically like hideout but command tent and supplies 2x and 4x resistance plus have a timer.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
The current mechanic for sieges is really weird- attackers either attack the siege camp where 100% of the army then responds, try to break thru (which is a nice mechanic but would be more fun if players could manually attempt to run a gauntlet (cavalry or infantry with speed perks + banner) or a night raid to attempt to burn down the siege engines, command tent, or supplies with escalating level of difficulty. Siege engines basically like hideout but command tent and supplies 2x and 4x resistance plus have a timer.
I can imagine worse ways of doing a raid on the siege camp than making it into something like a hideout but not many.
 

Ichon

Sergeant
I can imagine worse ways of doing a raid on the siege camp than making it into something like a hideout but not many.
It is not always about the best way but something in the realm of possibility to actually implement. If you are going to do a night raid to burn siege engines the troop #s on both sides have to be limited in some way or it is the same thing we already have- full battle, so how can we limit the numbers where there is still some risk for the attacker?

Hideouts during early EA could actually be a challenge, only a couple companions could join vs 10 troops we get now, even taking a bow and playing it like a stealth mini-game if there were many bandit parties in the hideout it was not a guaranteed win like it is now.

If 10% of the sieging army can defend the siege engines vs 10% of the attacking party that might be 100 vs 20 in a typical night raid- if the player takes their best units and is able to take out 20-50 enemy before they are knocked out and prioritizes the enemies best troops first, there is a chance the raid can be completed successfully because if isn't necessary to kill all the enemy, only keep the siege engines burning for a certain amount of time thesurviving troops can retreat though I think in raids there should be no wounded, only alive or dead to make the risk a bit higher.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
It is not always about the best way but something in the realm of possibility to actually implement. If you are going to do a night raid to burn siege engines the troop #s on both sides have to be limited in some way or it is the same thing we already have- full battle, so how can we limit the numbers where there is still some risk for the attacker?

Hideouts during early EA could actually be a challenge, only a couple companions could join vs 10 troops we get now, even taking a bow and playing it like a stealth mini-game if there were many bandit parties in the hideout it was not a guaranteed win like it is now.

If 10% of the sieging army can defend the siege engines vs 10% of the attacking party that might be 100 vs 20 in a typical night raid- if the player takes their best units and is able to take out 20-50 enemy before they are knocked out and prioritizes the enemies best troops first, there is a chance the raid can be completed successfully because if isn't necessary to kill all the enemy, only keep the siege engines burning for a certain amount of time thesurviving troops can retreat though I think in raids there should be no wounded, only alive or dead to make the risk a bit higher.
Ah, I see.

Yeah, a battle like that would be entertaining. I just don't want to have anything like the hideouts in terms of scale or layout. Because, honestly, those get really, really old. They got old even early in the EA when there could be like 60+ bandits in them, once you understood how it worked.
 

saittam

Recruit
I hope that we can incite a rebellion (or substantially decrease loyalty & security) if we are a powerful criminal and own a hideout, like we can in the fourberie mod. Being able to incite rebellion and take over rebelling towns as a "new" way of starting a kingdom would genuinely add a fun and viable way to play the midgame.
That sounds interesting.
 

geala

Sergeant at Arms
The losses vary depending on Tactics level- breaking into defend a siege with 200 army with 30 tactics is about 80ish losses but only 30ish with 70 tactics which is rather low tactics level for what a player can get up to.

Sally out battle with a smaller force and a time limit before the entire enemy army realizes there is an attack and the castle has to lower the gate would be cool- helpful if there is the ability to set fire to the siege engines and defend it long enough for the besiegers not to put out the blaze.

The size of the forces would be proportional to the garrison vs the army and the player battle size- if set on 200 and the garrison is 200 and the besieging army is 800 then the sally out is 1/8 scale meaning 100 vs 25 but the 100 arrives 25 separately at each siege artillery machine.

For me that are unacceptably high losses. Usually a unit is considered toast if it has more than 10% casualties. Losing 30 out of 200 would be a desaster. 10 or so maybe would be ok, if there were a formula which would choose lower tier units as casualties more than high tier.

Tactics is a terrible skill to level and I really don't like skills which come into play when the player already does not need it anymore. Breaking in or out is mostly a thing in the earlier stages of the game, for example as mercenary. If you can summon an army and make numbers count, it becomes less and less an useful option. It's better to wait till the attacker lost some units in the assault, standing nearby on the map and then attack his camp, much easier wins.

So I break in to play siege defenses because I like to play siege defenses, not because normally it's a good tactic. It is however sometimes the only thing you can do to help your faction in the early stages of the game, but then every loss of units is terrible. On the other hand, being trapped inside a castle/town and you had to break out? Never happened to me.
 
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That sounds interesting.
If you're not on console, try the Fourberie mod, it's a very good addition to roguery gameplay. The problem with the game style I described is that it doesn't really transition to the late game (unless you want neverending wars with all the kingdoms when you create a kingdom), so it's more of a roleplay addition more than anything.
 

JunKeteer

Veteran
'Sally out', as it is, has no tactical gameplay use. Especially since you spawn in a regular field and being outnumbered, will lose a lot more vs just playing the siege defense (where you could technically sally out via gates anyways).
At this point, it's more of a 'popcorn' curiosity how they were royally half-ass this new 'sally out' feature too; with no testing/QoL/player input considered. I'd bet they can't even do more than 20+ units for the player because it'll mess up that trigger with the OOB thing they implemented.
 

Errayn

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Missions are - to a degree - constrained by the scenes that they work within. What you are describing would not work in the current scenes (even if we were to move around spawn points, etc, there simply wouldn't be enough room afaik). And like you said, the AI is also not set up to support it.

The sally out mission discussed in the release plans is a surprise attack against the enemy siege engines.
So like sally out will be just a thing you flip a coin in campaign map or it will be like this?
 

Errayn

Sergeant Knight at Arms
How come that looks better then today? That video was 6 years ago!
6 years agos technology with less money than they currently have. If a game developer comes and says this feature is not possible with bannerlord and we will make it UI based like sorry man but this is just a skill issue of the dev who is working on that feature.
 
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