[S] Pike and Blade 3.5: Riders on the Storm!
- 主题发起人 Aeon221
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Aeon221
Sergeant at Arms
No idea why you're having errors with scene objects, I checked by downloading the mod and then following my instructions, no errors.
For those who are wondering what next, I _was_ waiting on the next stable patch to do more stuff, mostly because I had gotten bored of M&B. However I'm currently in the process of moving to a location which will have no home internet for the next six months or so -- depending on how long it takes them to lay cable -- so I'm pretty much going to call this version finito and call it a day rather than lead people on.
As always people are free to steal it and use it to make other, cooler things. To be completely and utterly clear, I give full and absolute permission for anyone who wants to become the new lord modder of Pike and Blade!
But seriously, if this cruddy little mod I made is still the last word in infantry expansion when I get back, I will be seriously pissed.
For those who are wondering what next, I _was_ waiting on the next stable patch to do more stuff, mostly because I had gotten bored of M&B. However I'm currently in the process of moving to a location which will have no home internet for the next six months or so -- depending on how long it takes them to lay cable -- so I'm pretty much going to call this version finito and call it a day rather than lead people on.
As always people are free to steal it and use it to make other, cooler things. To be completely and utterly clear, I give full and absolute permission for anyone who wants to become the new lord modder of Pike and Blade!
But seriously, if this cruddy little mod I made is still the last word in infantry expansion when I get back, I will be seriously pissed.
tenumakla
Recruit
I will try to do it again tomorrow, I'm sure it was a problem with something I did.
I'm sad to see you go, it was nice to see someone who put so much thought into something like this and didn't just do something stupid (like the 81 new troops mod). As soon as I get this working I will be very happy to play a Rhodoks character whose army isn't crap.
I'm sad to see you go, it was nice to see someone who put so much thought into something like this and didn't just do something stupid (like the 81 new troops mod). As soon as I get this working I will be very happy to play a Rhodoks character whose army isn't crap.
Kogara
Sergeant
That really sucks....I was looking forward to your next release, or at least a merge of the current version and diplomacy *shamelessly keeps pushing that*.
That said, I understand and totally forgive you
. Good luck in real life endeavors, hope to see you back modding some day.
Oh and this "Cruddy little mod" is awesome, don't under sell what you did here, because sadly no one else has done a mod that just balances and changes the existing troops. The only other option thus far is that 81 troops mod, which isn't what I'm looking for =\.
Again, good luck, and see ya around!
That said, I understand and totally forgive you
. Good luck in real life endeavors, hope to see you back modding some day. Oh and this "Cruddy little mod" is awesome, don't under sell what you did here, because sadly no one else has done a mod that just balances and changes the existing troops. The only other option thus far is that 81 troops mod, which isn't what I'm looking for =\.
Again, good luck, and see ya around!
chunzhu
Recruit
I agree of Kogara. This little mod is awesome. A few other things that you were planning, like changes in the economic system, integrating diplomacy and auto-loot, would have made it even better. I've tried the other mods, but I like this one because of its simplicity.
As for installing the diplomacy mod, I've had some success just copying Pike and Blade's files over the diplomacy files. Haven't gotten far enough to see if the diplomacy aspects work yet or not though.
As for installing the diplomacy mod, I've had some success just copying Pike and Blade's files over the diplomacy files. Haven't gotten far enough to see if the diplomacy aspects work yet or not though.
Can't get this to work properly with the diplomacy mod. The problem is that the game runs and all but some of the shields and armors are see through.
edit-- seems you might be right about the horse thing but I don't know why. I started a new game with just diplomacy, and then later added in pike and blade, using the items_kind file from diplomacy instead and just adding in the edits for the horses. So far it is working. You also have to add one line to troops.txt for pike and blade and one line for party templates.txt for pike also. Diplomacy adds one line to each of these files.
yeah just look for the edits for those and add them to the files, you also have to change the number at the top of the file to 1 more.
Kogara
Sergeant
Awesome, I'll have to try this. Thanks for posting on this guys, I know there has got to be a lot of us who want to merge these but don't have a clue on how to. I tried to ask Waihti several versions of diplomacy back, but I think he misunderstood my question >_<. All good though.
*runs off to try this*
*runs off to try this*
Kogara
Sergeant
It works! I've only been playing for a little while now, but all shields are no longer see through, and I'm not getting any script errors or anything, so far so good!
As previously stated, just go to the bottom of the diplomacy mods troops.txt and party_templates.txt files, and copy the entire line(s) starting with trp_chamberlain (under troops) and the line starting with Pt_spouse in party_templates.txt, just copy those lines over to the bottom of the Pike and Blade versions of troops and party_templates, and then copy them into the diplomacy mod!
Oh and REMEMBER, add a number to the top! i.e. the original P&B troops.txt has something like 970 lines (Near the top of the txt file, it'll say 970), change that to 971, because you added a line, and do the same for party_templates!
As for the item_kinds1 file, use control-f and search horses, wait until you find a bunch of horses back to back, as some of them were not changed (specifically, it appears that the tutorial horses were untouched, a couple of those as well as "Horse meat" show up before you get to the ones you want to change) simply copy that whole block of horses from the P&B item_kinds1, find the same lines in the Diplomacy version, and copy over them! (Highlight them like you're going to copy them, and then paste over them). After that, you're done! (No need to change any other numbers or anything in item_kinds1 after adding those horses)
If anyone has any questions or needs anything I've said clarified, feel free to ask
P.S. Remember to add those chamberlain and Pt_spouse lines at the BOTTOM of the text file!
P.S.S. Sorry if this is a little messy, I'm kinda typing it in a hurry, hope everything is clear.
As previously stated, just go to the bottom of the diplomacy mods troops.txt and party_templates.txt files, and copy the entire line(s) starting with trp_chamberlain (under troops) and the line starting with Pt_spouse in party_templates.txt, just copy those lines over to the bottom of the Pike and Blade versions of troops and party_templates, and then copy them into the diplomacy mod!
Oh and REMEMBER, add a number to the top! i.e. the original P&B troops.txt has something like 970 lines (Near the top of the txt file, it'll say 970), change that to 971, because you added a line, and do the same for party_templates!
As for the item_kinds1 file, use control-f and search horses, wait until you find a bunch of horses back to back, as some of them were not changed (specifically, it appears that the tutorial horses were untouched, a couple of those as well as "Horse meat" show up before you get to the ones you want to change) simply copy that whole block of horses from the P&B item_kinds1, find the same lines in the Diplomacy version, and copy over them! (Highlight them like you're going to copy them, and then paste over them). After that, you're done! (No need to change any other numbers or anything in item_kinds1 after adding those horses)
If anyone has any questions or needs anything I've said clarified, feel free to ask
P.S. Remember to add those chamberlain and Pt_spouse lines at the BOTTOM of the text file!
P.S.S. Sorry if this is a little messy, I'm kinda typing it in a hurry, hope everything is clear.
Aeon221
Sergeant at Arms
Poastin' from a borrowed lappy, so don't go all soppy boners about a new release =p
REQUEST: I'd like everyone who happens to open this thread to post what they think of when they think of each faction. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you think about Rhodoks or Swadians or Sarranids or any of the other factions?
I've been doin some serious pondering, and I'm thinking that, to be perfectly honest, the economic stuff doesn't need diddling with. Making villages more profitable for trade adds fiddly annoyance (now you have to hit every village instead of just the trade nodes) and cuts realism (market towns, nuff said) without adding any real gameplay benefits (trading at villages is like trading at towns, just less interesting in every way).
I could also increase regional variation. But why? The landmass of Calradia is miniscule -- a lone man can cross it in a day or two -- so there's no real justification for enormous regional price variations, especially as there appear to be no serious impediments to trade beyond banditry and war. And both of those are already well represented in game!
I might make the luxuries slightly more common, and possibly add a few vineyards (if you look at the code, yes, it does indeed work like that) to Veluca so that it has some wine to be known by, and maybe slightly raise the demand for dates in Sarranid lands -- so that they're dearer, and thus not quite such a no-brainer of a trade choice. But the rest of it? Why break what already works fairly well? This is an impressively well thought out economic system, and I see no reason to bugger with it unless I find some way to add multiple currencies and a financial market. In which case, OMGBONARZ. But, as has been previously mentioned, I've coded about as many times as I've climbed Mt. Everest.
But troopers? Oh yes, I have been thinkering a lot about them. And no, not just sexually, you dirty dirty readers.
The way I see it, the system needs more standardization so that it's easier to work with. So, for example, every tier should be a level divisible by 5, and the same for every single cultural group. So, all tier ones are l5, all tier 2s are l10, etc. Same with the attributes. Everyone starts at 10, and gets +1 per tier. And the skills! Everyone starts at 3, and gains +1 per level!
I can almost hear the scream -- scream because only one of you is reading this, the rest got bored and are now beavering away with their private parts -- of anguish at the concept of standardization. But I say unto you, my faithful, that the true advantage of standardization is that it allows you to have a mould to break.
I want to do things like have national variations (more on this in a future post), and have troops fall into specific categories with specific bonuses -- like Assault (+10 primary weapon proficiency, +2 ironflesh, +2 athletics) or Skirmish (+5 melee, +5 ranged, +4 athletics) or Slow (+4 ironflesh, -2 athletics, -1 agility, +1 strength) or Mounted (+20 primary and secondary weapon proficiencies, -ALL athletics, +4+round.up(1*tier/2)) Riding, -2 ironflesh).
NOW FOR THE GAME THEORY REASONS! Warning, do not read if easily bored by lack of squirrel pictures, or if your name begins with the letters T, F, or Zqu! But do read and tell me where I've got **** wrong, because I don't doubt that the wrong is all over the place, like a fat kid in a speedo on a Vespa.
In conclusion, I still won't be doing anything anytime soon, but I will be coming back to mess with things in the future because thinking about this game is fun. Or at least the things it makes me think about are fun to think about. I'm still considering that damn t6 archer line for the Vaegirs.
edit: As I've said before, I only changed campaign active horses. So if you can get it in campaign (like a Charger or a Warhorse) it got changed. The Arena and Tutorial horses were untouched because they're designed for a totally different, um, arena.
edit2: The number of units is exactly 970. There are 969 actual units, and 970 is a dummy unit I added because the .txt tool I was using had a weird bug where the last unit didn't show up when I was dicking around with the party_templates.txt editor. If you want to add new units, cut 970 out before you get started, then add him back in at the end if you get the same weird bug I did.
edit3: Also yes this Diplomacy thing is cool, thanks for figuring it out for me folks! I'll update the OP with info on how to merge it! Oh, and it looks like I'll have home 'net coverage in only 1 month, instead of 6, so that's also a big improvement.
REQUEST: I'd like everyone who happens to open this thread to post what they think of when they think of each faction. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you think about Rhodoks or Swadians or Sarranids or any of the other factions?
I've been doin some serious pondering, and I'm thinking that, to be perfectly honest, the economic stuff doesn't need diddling with. Making villages more profitable for trade adds fiddly annoyance (now you have to hit every village instead of just the trade nodes) and cuts realism (market towns, nuff said) without adding any real gameplay benefits (trading at villages is like trading at towns, just less interesting in every way).
I could also increase regional variation. But why? The landmass of Calradia is miniscule -- a lone man can cross it in a day or two -- so there's no real justification for enormous regional price variations, especially as there appear to be no serious impediments to trade beyond banditry and war. And both of those are already well represented in game!
I might make the luxuries slightly more common, and possibly add a few vineyards (if you look at the code, yes, it does indeed work like that) to Veluca so that it has some wine to be known by, and maybe slightly raise the demand for dates in Sarranid lands -- so that they're dearer, and thus not quite such a no-brainer of a trade choice. But the rest of it? Why break what already works fairly well? This is an impressively well thought out economic system, and I see no reason to bugger with it unless I find some way to add multiple currencies and a financial market. In which case, OMGBONARZ. But, as has been previously mentioned, I've coded about as many times as I've climbed Mt. Everest.
But troopers? Oh yes, I have been thinkering a lot about them. And no, not just sexually, you dirty dirty readers.
The way I see it, the system needs more standardization so that it's easier to work with. So, for example, every tier should be a level divisible by 5, and the same for every single cultural group. So, all tier ones are l5, all tier 2s are l10, etc. Same with the attributes. Everyone starts at 10, and gets +1 per tier. And the skills! Everyone starts at 3, and gains +1 per level!
I can almost hear the scream -- scream because only one of you is reading this, the rest got bored and are now beavering away with their private parts -- of anguish at the concept of standardization. But I say unto you, my faithful, that the true advantage of standardization is that it allows you to have a mould to break.
I want to do things like have national variations (more on this in a future post), and have troops fall into specific categories with specific bonuses -- like Assault (+10 primary weapon proficiency, +2 ironflesh, +2 athletics) or Skirmish (+5 melee, +5 ranged, +4 athletics) or Slow (+4 ironflesh, -2 athletics, -1 agility, +1 strength) or Mounted (+20 primary and secondary weapon proficiencies, -ALL athletics, +4+round.up(1*tier/2)) Riding, -2 ironflesh).
NOW FOR THE GAME THEORY REASONS! Warning, do not read if easily bored by lack of squirrel pictures, or if your name begins with the letters T, F, or Zqu! But do read and tell me where I've got **** wrong, because I don't doubt that the wrong is all over the place, like a fat kid in a speedo on a Vespa.
In game theory, we assume that the player has a roughly accurate (actually, a fairly perfect) knowledge of the outcomes of their various strategies given that the strategic choice of the other player is known (in other words, if you choose rock, you know what happens when the other guy picks rock, paper or scissors). In a game where all strategic elements are essentially unknowable due to the proliferation of variables, the player is incapable of making any sort of rational choice and must therefore make a choice a-rationally.
In other words, if you don't know what the hell constitutes a "Pikeman," you can't make a rational choice about whether or not to include one in your army and end up going with something like gut instinct or aesthetics or sheer bloodymindedness.
Standardization aids in strategic reasoning in a complex environment by reducing the number of unknowable (unless you spend an irrational amount of time 'attempting to know') variables.
So in the current environment unless you delve deep into the .txt files, you have no way of knowing what the physical characteristics of a "Pikeman" are, or whether those characteristics are better or worse than those of a "Spearman" or a "Kniggut," But if we standardize by tier such that the physical characteristics are known (saving the gear, which would be a serious ****ing pain in my butthole to standardize, although I kind of want to since the current system is pretty inane and irrational and results in a very small number of strictly dominant gear sets), we end up with a situation where random selection is an inferior choice. In other words, you have a 'fun' game where skill should win out over random selection*!
Except that you have no idea what the joint probability of victory is when combining units of different types and then encountering a semi-random selection of enemy types -- and if you're wondering, that's pretty much an unsolvable problem (joint probabilities with unknown correlation? Yeah, just shoot me now!), a similar version of which caused the near collapse of the world financial system recently (hello CDOs!). Still, as chess makes perfectly clear, standardization of pieces is a better route than our current system of total randomization.
*Rock Paper Scissors is an example of a game without weakly dominant strategies, and one which also has a mixed Nash equilibrium of, essentially, both players throwing down random crap -- in other words, Starcraft if both players sucked at scouting. Chess is a potential counter-example, in that it is infinitely complex but also heavily penalizes random actions. However, it should be obvious that chess relies heavily on standardization, rotating turns and the sheer number of potential outcomes to prevent players from solving and instantly countering any potentially optimal choice. The huge corpus of openings should, however, make it very clear to anyone who read this far that, while chess has not been solved, the openings are known and weak ones can be dealt with harshly by a sufficiently knowledgeable player, making it functionally solved.
In other words, if you don't know what the hell constitutes a "Pikeman," you can't make a rational choice about whether or not to include one in your army and end up going with something like gut instinct or aesthetics or sheer bloodymindedness.
Standardization aids in strategic reasoning in a complex environment by reducing the number of unknowable (unless you spend an irrational amount of time 'attempting to know') variables.
So in the current environment unless you delve deep into the .txt files, you have no way of knowing what the physical characteristics of a "Pikeman" are, or whether those characteristics are better or worse than those of a "Spearman" or a "Kniggut," But if we standardize by tier such that the physical characteristics are known (saving the gear, which would be a serious ****ing pain in my butthole to standardize, although I kind of want to since the current system is pretty inane and irrational and results in a very small number of strictly dominant gear sets), we end up with a situation where random selection is an inferior choice. In other words, you have a 'fun' game where skill should win out over random selection*!
Except that you have no idea what the joint probability of victory is when combining units of different types and then encountering a semi-random selection of enemy types -- and if you're wondering, that's pretty much an unsolvable problem (joint probabilities with unknown correlation? Yeah, just shoot me now!), a similar version of which caused the near collapse of the world financial system recently (hello CDOs!). Still, as chess makes perfectly clear, standardization of pieces is a better route than our current system of total randomization.
*Rock Paper Scissors is an example of a game without weakly dominant strategies, and one which also has a mixed Nash equilibrium of, essentially, both players throwing down random crap -- in other words, Starcraft if both players sucked at scouting. Chess is a potential counter-example, in that it is infinitely complex but also heavily penalizes random actions. However, it should be obvious that chess relies heavily on standardization, rotating turns and the sheer number of potential outcomes to prevent players from solving and instantly countering any potentially optimal choice. The huge corpus of openings should, however, make it very clear to anyone who read this far that, while chess has not been solved, the openings are known and weak ones can be dealt with harshly by a sufficiently knowledgeable player, making it functionally solved.
In conclusion, I still won't be doing anything anytime soon, but I will be coming back to mess with things in the future because thinking about this game is fun. Or at least the things it makes me think about are fun to think about. I'm still considering that damn t6 archer line for the Vaegirs.
edit: As I've said before, I only changed campaign active horses. So if you can get it in campaign (like a Charger or a Warhorse) it got changed. The Arena and Tutorial horses were untouched because they're designed for a totally different, um, arena.
edit2: The number of units is exactly 970. There are 969 actual units, and 970 is a dummy unit I added because the .txt tool I was using had a weird bug where the last unit didn't show up when I was dicking around with the party_templates.txt editor. If you want to add new units, cut 970 out before you get started, then add him back in at the end if you get the same weird bug I did.
edit3: Also yes this Diplomacy thing is cool, thanks for figuring it out for me folks! I'll update the OP with info on how to merge it! Oh, and it looks like I'll have home 'net coverage in only 1 month, instead of 6, so that's also a big improvement.
Aeon221
Sergeant at Arms
Hey, since I can't test this in game right now due to previously mentioned issues, have any of you checked to see that the chamberlain shows up as opposed to one of the P&B troopers in the Diplo+P&B merge?
I've found that if a trooper doesn't appear in the correct location in the troops.txt file, it plays merry hell with the game. I'll post the current compatibility install instructions to the OP, but if it IS all buggered I (or someone else *crosses fingers*) will have to create a merged version and upload that.
I might just do that when I get placed, and include all the arena and tweakmb changes and call it a complete pack. Could be fun!
But check to see that the chamberlain works!
edit: Ok, OP's Compatibility spoiler is now updated with detailed instructions about how to carry out the changes. I won't be available to change that for a few days, so, uh, I hope you guys got it right or some people are going to be seriously confused and/or pissed.
In related news, not enough of your are *****ing. How the heck am I supposed to fix things if no one is *****ing? This is the internet! Yell and scream and stamp some feet and complain about how broken/weak/OP/UP/stupid these changes are! I mean, really, if I wanted someone to tell me how awesome I am, I could just look in the mirror and tell me that I'm the hottest thing since that fricken potato that burned the roof of my mouth. Seriously, restaurateurs, it does not need to be that hot, cool it the hell down so that I can eat it this lifetime without reference to a Geiger counter. ANYWAY, I do love that you all love it and all -- I like it too, it IS my 'baby' after all -- but I need more/some/ANY whining or I can't make it better. And, really, this is not the best we can do together! It's just a first draft! Let's get editorial!
Finally, at the time of this edit there have been 2,836 downloads of all versions. Thanks!
I've found that if a trooper doesn't appear in the correct location in the troops.txt file, it plays merry hell with the game. I'll post the current compatibility install instructions to the OP, but if it IS all buggered I (or someone else *crosses fingers*) will have to create a merged version and upload that.
I might just do that when I get placed, and include all the arena and tweakmb changes and call it a complete pack. Could be fun!
But check to see that the chamberlain works!
edit: Ok, OP's Compatibility spoiler is now updated with detailed instructions about how to carry out the changes. I won't be available to change that for a few days, so, uh, I hope you guys got it right or some people are going to be seriously confused and/or pissed.
In related news, not enough of your are *****ing. How the heck am I supposed to fix things if no one is *****ing? This is the internet! Yell and scream and stamp some feet and complain about how broken/weak/OP/UP/stupid these changes are! I mean, really, if I wanted someone to tell me how awesome I am, I could just look in the mirror and tell me that I'm the hottest thing since that fricken potato that burned the roof of my mouth. Seriously, restaurateurs, it does not need to be that hot, cool it the hell down so that I can eat it this lifetime without reference to a Geiger counter. ANYWAY, I do love that you all love it and all -- I like it too, it IS my 'baby' after all -- but I need more/some/ANY whining or I can't make it better. And, really, this is not the best we can do together! It's just a first draft! Let's get editorial!
Finally, at the time of this edit there have been 2,836 downloads of all versions. Thanks!
Actually, I noticed that the chamberlain does not show up actually. A pikeman is my chamberlain. How do I fix that?
Can you make the source file available so I can try merging them or how do I make a source file from the txt file?
Can you make the source file available so I can try merging them or how do I make a source file from the txt file?
Kogara
Sergeant
Yeah, I've got a Rhodok Sergent as my Chamberlain, so there is a small problem there, albeit a cosmetic one it seems.
As for your previous posts: Post 1: Sounds good, I'd like to see how that plays out, as it stands there is still a bit of that "pick random crap" element, here and there. Post 2: Firstly, LOL. Secondly, I'll try to *****.....um.....give me some damn t6 archers on the Vaegirs, god you suck.
On a more constructive note, I'd like to see at least one truly unique feeling unit in each faction. Like with the original, the Nords had Huscarls, the Vaegirs had the best archers, the Vaegir Marksmen, the Swadians had Knights, the Rhodoks.....well.......not sure about that.....they had board shields? Khergits.....they were a god damn horse army, enough said? And the Sarrinids, well, they had good archers, nearly as good as Vaegirs, they had some well roundedness in their own right, but as for uniqueness, I'd say it was the Mameluke.
That said, your version feels more balanced, but at the same time, I feel like the factions are missing that pull they had before when deciding who you really wanted to focus on, faction wise. I love the units overall, but I feel they could use a more unique unit, probably at the top tier.
As it stands, the Swadians still have their Knights, the Nords still have their Huscral equivalent (The Thegn), the Sarrinids still have an elite horsemen, etc. But to me, it still feels like overall the factions are still missing some flavor to them. Though balance still needs to be maintained, of course. I don't know, maybe its just me, but it feels like something is missing.
Just some thoughts and ideas. I'll try to be more of an ass next time
As for your previous posts: Post 1: Sounds good, I'd like to see how that plays out, as it stands there is still a bit of that "pick random crap" element, here and there. Post 2: Firstly, LOL. Secondly, I'll try to *****.....um.....give me some damn t6 archers on the Vaegirs, god you suck.
On a more constructive note, I'd like to see at least one truly unique feeling unit in each faction. Like with the original, the Nords had Huscarls, the Vaegirs had the best archers, the Vaegir Marksmen, the Swadians had Knights, the Rhodoks.....well.......not sure about that.....they had board shields? Khergits.....they were a god damn horse army, enough said? And the Sarrinids, well, they had good archers, nearly as good as Vaegirs, they had some well roundedness in their own right, but as for uniqueness, I'd say it was the Mameluke.
That said, your version feels more balanced, but at the same time, I feel like the factions are missing that pull they had before when deciding who you really wanted to focus on, faction wise. I love the units overall, but I feel they could use a more unique unit, probably at the top tier.
As it stands, the Swadians still have their Knights, the Nords still have their Huscral equivalent (The Thegn), the Sarrinids still have an elite horsemen, etc. But to me, it still feels like overall the factions are still missing some flavor to them. Though balance still needs to be maintained, of course. I don't know, maybe its just me, but it feels like something is missing.
Just some thoughts and ideas. I'll try to be more of an ass next time
