Russians rioting in Tallinn, Estonia

[Archonsod]

Ivan has a lot more to lose than the European Union if they do that.

Most of the EU's gas is now imported from Russia, including critical economies such as Germany. If the Russians close off the pipe (as they did to the Ukraine), it affects supply throughout Europe.

USSR - brutally murdered millions of civilians.
Nazi Germany - brutally murdered millions of civilians.

Key difference:
USSR - Brutally murdered millions of it's own civilians
Nazi's - Brutally murdered millions of other countries civilians.

Nobody cares when you murder your own people, but start doing it to your neighbours and you can't move for bloody peacekeepers.

As I read the morning paper today, I came across that Russians claim the removal of the statue ''fascism''. I mean, what the hell? How's that fascism?

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Fascist They've got them bang to rights....

 

[Worbah]

You must notice that I used the word "estimates" in my previous post. it's not as though there was a guy going "one corpse, two corpses,...". The estimates usually range between 5-30 millions. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about this before. Oh, and believing that all Finns hate Russians is prejudistic.

 

[Manitas]

Thanks, I know the history of my country pretty well. But speaking that USSR = 3 Reich (brutal murder of the peace population including children and a Jews genocide)... oh god, I hope that was a lame joke.

Forgot about the Ribbentrop - Molotov pact? 3rd Reich and USSR were allies in the beginning of WWII.
And actually, 3rd reich have been doing genocide for about five years, USSR for over sixty.

And since my country freed itself from USSR occupation nearly 20 years ago: give back all our potatos and ham!

 

[kurjajuur]

Why is Russia whining anyway?

They tore down our statues of the independence war. And now they are pissed off because we removed  1 statue . Every estonian hated that statue anyway.

 

[Nahkis]

As I read the morning paper today, I came across that Russians claim the removal of the statue ''fascism''. I mean, what the hell? How's that fascism?

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Fascist They've got them bang to rights....

 

[Gregor Eisenhorn]

He killed 1 million not 30, check your facts.

He killed more than that in Ukraine alone.  Way more than that.

 

[Weaver]

this is bull****, gregor. if more than 30 million people were killed in ukraine in 1930's there would be no one left at all.

as for the statue.. well, this is very sad that certain people use historical events from the past to lobby their political interests. this statue does not commemorate the soviet regime, which you all loathe so much, not really knowing a damn about it. it commemorates a simple soviet soldier - russian, ukrainian, jewish, even estonian too. millions of people died trying to stop hitler's onslaught. one should be really stupid to think that under nazi rule baltic states would live a better life. i don't approve what stalin has done to my country. but it is not my grandparents' fault he was such a scum. they were brave and honest people who actually fought for life and freedom. if not for them there would be no jews, no ukrainians, maybe no estonians left either. and mistreating this monument is not going to offend stalin but it will surely offend them. soviet union is no more, but people still live. what is the reason of offending old people? what's in it for estonia?

 

[okiN]

this is bull****, gregor. if more than 30 million people were killed in ukraine in 1930's there would be no one left at all.

I think he meant the one million.

 

[Gregor Eisenhorn]

Okin is right.

 

[Feerspoir]

this statue does not commemorate the soviet regime, which you all loathe so much

Shouldn't we? Next you'll say we shouldn't loathe the Nazi regime.

it commemorates a simple soviet soldier

The key word being SOVIET = consciously or not, defending a criminal regime and imposing it on the Baltic Peoples and other nationalities.

one should be really stupid to think that under nazi rule baltic states would live a better life.

One isn't. They were EQUALLY disgusting, murderous, criminal "empires" (and I emphasize EMPIRE here, with all that the word accounts for).

they were brave and honest people who actually fought for life and freedom.

So were the Baltics who fought in the Waffen SS, from their own point of view.

if not for them there would be no jews, no ukrainians, maybe no estonians left either.

You were actually doing a great job on your own before the Nazis came. And you continued their job afterwards.

mistreating this monument is not going to offend stalin but it will surely offend them

That's the ****ing point: to "offend" the invaders and oppressors!

From Wikipedia:
Following the Nazi-Soviet pact of 1939, the Soviet Army entered eastern Poland as well as military bases in the Baltic states which were granted after USSR had threatened the three countries with military invasion. In June 1940, the Red Army occupied the whole territory of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, and installed new, pro-Soviet governments in all three countries. Following rigged elections, in which only pro-communist candidates were allowed to run, the newly "elected" parliaments of the three countries formally applied to "join" USSR in August 1940 and were annexed into it as the Estonian SSR, the Latvian SSR, and the Lithuanian SSR.
The Soviet control of the Baltic states was interrupted by Nazi German invasion of the region in 1941. The German occupation lasted until late 1944 (in Courland, until early 1945), when the countries were re-occupied by the Red Army. In all three countries, Baltic partisans, known colloquially as the Forest Brothers, waged unsuccessful guerilla warfare against the Soviet occupation for the next eight years in a bid to regain their nations' independence.

The latter are the ONLY ONES who should have a right to a monument. And not Waffen SS and Soviet criminals.

 

[JetJedi]

Oh yeah, now it calls "fighting for independence" and they bluh-bluh-bluh had some points, how I love this new history interpretation. Serving in SS, as policeman who informed on the own citizens and even as an executioner in the gas chamber... That’s right boys, now it calls "fighting for independence"...

But damn, what about the excavation of soldiers tombs? I'll repeat: EXCAVATION of TOMBS. Are you OK with it??? Sometimes I think that you guys a bit more lobotomized than it’s supposed to.

 

[Feerspoir]

Yet again, it's like you Russians leaving Wehrmacht soldiers' tombs in a central square in Moscow. Think about it. Would you let it happen?

Oh yeah, now it calls "fighting for the freedom of the Baltic Peoples and Ucrainians and Bielorussians, etc." and they bluh-bluh-bluh had some points, how I love this new history interpretation. Serving in NKVD, as a KGB informant who informed on the own citizens and even as an executioner in the gulags... That’s right boys, now it calls "fighting for the freedom of the Baltic Peoples and Ucrainians and Bielorussians, etc."...

But damn, what about the excavation of soldiers of an oppressive and criminal regime's tombs? I'll repeat: EXCAVATION of TOMBS. Are you OK with it??? Sometimes I think that you guys a bit more lobotomized than it’s supposed to.

Fixed.

 

[JetJedi]

Oh god...You asking me want I excavation in this case??? NO. Because I have a human feelings at least. Btw, we also have a Whermacht tombs as well as Germany (at the center of Berlin!) has ours. But no one, I repeat, NO ONE think about EXCAVATION. It’s just IMPOSSIBLE at the civilized world.

upd

Fixed

you are lame

 

[Ilex]

Whaddya mean? Excavations are done all the time by forensic or such -teams.

 

[TheDrunkenMoron]

But speaking that USSR = 3 Reich (brutal murder of the peace population including children and a Jews genocide)... oh god, I hope that was a lame joke.

yeah, because by many estimates Stalin had nearly 30 million of his own people killed, whereas Hitler "merely" had 6 million or so jews killed. So no, Soviet Russia isn't as bad as  Nazi Germany. It's much worse.

well then, it comes to personal choice. Would you rather starve to death due to lack of grain (with the occasional person having a pick axe rammed through there head) or being gassed to death?

 

[Invictus]

All you see in mass media about that thing with monument is absolute lie.
If such thing happened in the centre of Moscow because of commercial interest no one would give a **** about it.

And don't try to debate with Russians about USSR, it's useless.
They'll say that everything bad in the world comes from West and everything good from USSR.

 

[morgoth2005]

True. To an extent. The Russian government is reacting like this to impress the people at home n stuff. And the tombs - there was a tomb of 6 fighter pilots who died in the defence of Moscow, in Himki on the North-Western border of Moscow. Well they took out the bones, put them in a plastic bag and lost them.

 

[Weaver]

I think he meant the one million.

this is more like it.

Shouldn't we? Next you'll say we shouldn't loathe the Nazi regime.

i think you may loathe the regime if you have so much spite in you. but you shouldn't loathe common people who lived under these regimes. anyways i didn't notice any estonians hating german people. on the contrary they seem to like them a lot. maybe if russians gave you some money too you'd forget about your hard feelings?

The key word being SOVIET = consciously or not, defending a criminal regime and imposing it on the Baltic Peoples and other nationalities.

this is your point of view. and even if you are right does it means these people should be disgraced now? does anyone loathe napoleo? do slavic people raze mongol barrows? do they burn the remnants of nazi soldiers who probably burned and gased their ancestors? that would be rather barbaric i think.

So were the Baltics who fought in the Waffen SS, from their own point of view.

i agree on that. here in Ukraine there are monuments to both soviet soldiers and ukrainian guerillas who fought both nazi and soviets. they were all soldiers, they all died for their beliefs, they were all equal.

You were actually doing a great job on your own before the Nazis came. And you continued their job afterwards.

we were? i was? you're going too far here. i personally am a half-jew, half-russian. my granpa was a colonel in soviet army. his entire family (first wife, small children, old people) was BURNT ALIVE by nazi soldiers in a barn. my another grandfather was orphaned. when nazis gased jews he managed to escape and ukrainian family hid him. there was no family in ukraine that didn't lose someone to nazi monstrosities. these people did not defend stalin's regime. they defended, their families, their own lives and lives of millions of people throughout europe, you moron.

That's the ****ing point: to "offend" the invaders and oppressors!

a worthy job for a bold rabbit to punch a dead lion.

 

[Manitas]

a worthy job for a bold rabbit to punch a dead lion.

Haha, russian dreams of power, you'll never heal from it.
A lion! - must be kidding, more like a hamster trying to stuff a sack of grain in his pouches.
Rather a modern version of Midas myth, except any patch of land the soviet union occupied turned to **** instantly.

Anywhere soviets tried to enforce their mob rules, there was also genocide, stink, poverty and gallons of moonshine.
A pathetic empire that couldn't even put to good use all the goods it robbed from occupied countries, letting it's own people starve, slowly turning into decay itself, unable to keep the territories it claimed.

 

[morgoth2005]

Haha, russian dreams of power, you'll never heal from it. Wink

Who doesn't dream of power?