Russians rioting in Tallinn, Estonia

[Feerspoir]

Common, what's better, Nazi or Soviet?

Are you serious??? Hum, let me think...
a) a criminal, murdering, megalomaniac psychiatric case with a bad moustache who, being Austrian, rises to power in Germany and consolidates a barbarous, mass murdering regime
b) a criminal, murdering, megalomaniac prychiatric case with a bad moustache who, being Georgian, rises to power in Russia and consolidates a barbarous, mass murdering regime
Tough choice indeed.

The occupation of Estonia is unlawful, but they actually haev built a memorial commemorating the fallen Germans and now they're removing the Red Army one.
Common, thousands of Estonians served in the Red army and died to liberate their own country, and now their memorial is being removed.

They didn't build it to honour fallen Germans, but to honour fallen Estonians under German command. Big difference. Whereas the Soviet monument honours the fallen SOVIET soldiers, be they Estonian, Russian, Tatar or whatever.
Blow it up and mail the pieces to the Huns in the Kremlin!

Because Russia has a tendency to make it's point with an AK74? It's like saying why should Chechnya listen to Russia?

Get real Archie, Russia will never attack Estonia.

 

[JetJedi]

Welcome to old nazi times, comrades Estonians! You know why in Germany there is no questions about the dismantling of monuments to Russian soldiers (as symbol of their defeat!) at all? Because they are humans unlike you beasts, they respect our general history and condemn Nazism. And now all that you can is justifying your shameful nazi past and falling to the grave robbers level, Hail father Ilves!

By the way, now the idea about of termination of all diplomatic relations with Estonia (including the interdiction of import and economic sanctions) have real weigh. Congrats, you have made your choice...

 

[Archonsod]

Get real Archie, Russia will never attack Estonia.

They don't have to. These days they just turn the gas pipelines off...

 

[ArabArcher35]

Welcome to old nazi times, comrades Estonians! You know why in Germany there is no questions about the dismantling of monuments to Russian soldiers (as symbol of their defeat!) at all? Because they are humans unlike you beasts, they respect our general history and condemn Nazism. And now all that you can is justifying your shameful nazi past and falling to the grave robbers level, Hail father Ilves!

By the way, now the idea about of termination of all diplomatic relations with Estonia (including the interdiction of import and economic sanctions) have real weigh. Congrats, you have made your choice...

Calling all Estonians beasts and unhuman... That sounds bigoted and racist, and definitely a bannable offense.

 

[Feerspoir]

Welcome to old nazi times, comrades Estonians! You know why in Germany there is no questions about the dismantling of monuments to Russian soldiers (as symbol of their defeat!) at all? Because they are humans unlike you beasts, they respect our general history and condemn Nazism. And now all that you can is justifying your shameful nazi past and falling to the grave robbers level, Hail father Ilves!
By the way, now the idea about of termination of all diplomatic relations with Estonia (including the interdiction of import and economic sanctions) have real weigh. Congrats, you have made your choice...

You should think about your equally shameful past as the Soviet Beast in the East.
What you seem to forget is that, ideologies aside, from a practical point of view, Nazi Regime=Soviet Union. Mass murders, mass deportations, political police (a.k.a. state assassins), treating the general population as ****, treating other nationalities and cultures under your rule as under-****, etc.
Estonians, like Germans and Western Europe, condemn Nazism. And to be coherent, they also condemn the Soviet Union. Different names and "ideologies", same piece of ****!

Get real Archie, Russia will never attack Estonia.

They don't have to. These days they just turn the gas pipelines off...

Ivan has a lot more to lose than the European Union if they do that.

 

[morgoth2005]

As in? when Russia opens its pipelines to China, Europe will have to go renewable like straight away.

 

[JetJedi]

Estonians, like Germans and Western Europe, condemn Nazism.

That’s why they served in SS and had concentration camps in their territories... understood sir. You know what? All this speaking about the fighting for their own independence is REALLY ****. They simply did not trust in fascists defeat and have accepted their party because of cowardice. I don’t want to say that USSR was good at all but, f*ck, image that ass you could be if it wasn’t?

Get real Archie, Russia will never attack Estonia.

They don't have to. These days they just turn the gas pipelines off...

Ivan has a lot more to lose than the European Union if they do that.

Really? And how much? Yes, Russia would not do it. But remember, we also have a HUGE Chinese and Indian markets. Europe support is a political reason firstly...

 

[Feerspoir]

JetJedi: a) NKVD, KGB, Communist Party b) SA/SS, Gestapo, Nazi Party. Different names, same **** to me.
I'm not sure I understood your last post, but to reiterate my point: USSR = III Reich.
The Soviet regime was responsible for millions of dead and deported. They invaded countries for predatory, imperialistic reasons, the "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer" apllied just as well to the Soviets (one people in the latter case as in indoctrinating and making the minorities conform and be lap dogs to the Russian majority). Your beloved "party comrades" had as much blood on their hands as the Nazis.

Regarding the second part, it's majorly the European Union that brings economic develpment to Russia. If we were to declare a trade embargo, you would stagnate even more than now. Granted, we would suffer also from lack of resources, but we would be much faster in getting alternatives running than you.
Anyway, neither is never going to happen anyway. We depend too much on each other yet.

And regarding the Estonian affair, you can ***** all you want, it's not gonna change anything. Would you like a monument to the Wehrmacht soldier erected in a Moscow square? I guess not. That's how Estonians feel towards you (and the Baltic States in general, and the Caucasus, etc.) Deal with it.

 

[JetJedi]

Thanks, I know the history of my country pretty well. But speaking that USSR = 3 Reich (brutal murder of the peace population including children and a Jews genocide)... oh god, I hope that was a lame joke.

Regarding to Estonians, once again, I do not speak that USSR was good at all. But its contribution for a victory under fascists was huge, we have lost so many lives... And it is truly blasphemous now so much years later occurs destruction of military monuments and tombs excavation (!!!). It is a savage mind level. I haven't casually refered Germany as an example, we respect our mutual history having military burial places and monuments from both sides because we respect memory to the dead.

And you know, if you will say "Hail Hitler" in Berlin you will be arrested. But you can easy wear swastika in Riga orTallinn...

 

[okiN]

Thanks, I know the history of my country pretty well. But speaking that USSR = 3 Reich (brutal murder of the peace population including children and a Jews genocide)... oh god, I hope that was a lame joke.

USSR - brutally murdered millions of civilians.
Nazi Germany - brutally murdered millions of civilians.

?????

 

[Hallequin]

Thanks, I know the history of my country pretty well. But speaking that USSR = 3 Reich (brutal murder of the peace population including children and a Jews genocide)... oh god, I hope that was a lame joke.

I think you might, but you're biased about it.

An absolute loss of any freedom, with deportations and murders if you try to do anything other than what's "appropriate", is not much better. People were deported for no other reason than being teachers or of some intellectual position. Lithuania, a small country that had a population of only around 2.5 million people at that time lost 1 million people to the deportations (kids included), of which .3 million died there. And it was one of the more lightly affected places.

I don't see any reason why Nazis were any worse than the USSR.

And you know, if you will say "Hail Hitler" in Berlin you will be arrested. But you can easy wear swastika in Riga or Tallinn...

No you can't.

And about the Estonians, well, good job. I'm just wondering why they didn't do that right after they gained independence.

 

[Javelin]

It is more or less removing it, in everything but name. Cemeteries are never visited and then it would be much less famous.

Cemetaries are visited by people who pay their respects to the dead, while statues of "liberators" in town centres attract nationalists.

 

[Worbah]

But speaking that USSR = 3 Reich (brutal murder of the peace population including children and a Jews genocide)... oh god, I hope that was a lame joke.

yeah, because by many estimates Stalin had nearly 30 million of his own people killed, whereas Hitler "merely" had 6 million or so jews killed. So no, Soviet Russia isn't as bad as  Nazi Germany. It's much worse.

 

[morgoth2005]

Worbah, you have no right to reply, you're a Finn, you hate us for centuries.

And regarding the Estonian affair, you can ***** all you want, it's not gonna change anything. Would you like a monument to the Wehrmacht soldier erected in a Moscow square? I guess not. That's how Estonians feel towards you (and the Baltic States in general, and the Caucasus, etc.) Deal with it.

When Russia cuts diplomatic relations then you'll have to deal with it.

But speaking that USSR = 3 Reich (brutal murder of the peace population including children and a Jews genocide)... oh god, I hope that was a lame joke.

yeah, because by many estimates Stalin had nearly 30 million of his own people killed, whereas Hitler "merely" had 6 million or so jews killed. So no, Soviet Russia isn't as bad as  Nazi Germany. It's much worse.

He killed 1 million not 30, check your facts.

I'll quote from replies on the BBC:
[quote author=BBC]

22(!) concentration camps were established by Nazis with cooperation from Estonian collaborators in such a small country in such a short time. Less than a dozen of Estonian Jews had survived. Would you like me to provide you with more data about your, Estonian, 'peaceful' behavior in not so long ago past? To fight against Soviet occupation shouldn't have meant to slaughter 'enemies' of your then master. Hate is your deadend. Be smarter.[/quote]

[quote author=BBC]I suspect for the British sitting on their island it's quite difficult to appreciate what was going on on the continent in 1941-1945 as well as the role of Russian soldier - let's face the reality. Ok, if it comes to that, there were issues related to freedom, democracy and stuff between Russians and estonians. But they have nothing to do with nazis' defeat, for which the Russian soldiers buried in Tallinn deserve full credit. Hands off the monument![/quote]

Yea, I do understand it right, the Russians shouldn't have started all the fighting and the rest and the Soviets oppressed them, but the Estonian government doesn't have much right to remove history.

 

[okiN]

Worbah, you have no right to reply, you're a Finn, you hate us for centuries.

Morgoth, you have no right to reply, you're Russian so of course you'll support your own people.

 

[Hallequin]

When Russia cuts diplomatic relations then you'll have to deal with it.

So you think you can go around, enforcing your will wherever you wish, threatening with cutting the pipes, and still feel good and just about it?

He killed 1 million not 30, check your facts.

If 0.3 million were killed in Lithuania alone, a tiny country, do you really think it would amount to only 1 million in total? I'm not sure about 30, but it was at least 10 million. Check your facts.

Yea, I do understand it right, the Russians shouldn't have started all the fighting and the rest and the Soviets oppressed them, but the Estonian government doesn't have much right to remove history.

They're not removing history, they're just removing something that the Estonian majority find offensive to them, a reminder of oppression.

 

[morgoth2005]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge#Victim_toll that's my info. Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Hallequin]

That's why. Thing is, there were many more deaths due to the oppression after 1938.

 

[Feerspoir]

Hey Morgoth, that million they're talking about: it's only related to the Purge and to a period of TWO years!

And it goes on today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obC0uYh6MQQ

 

[Nahkis]

As I read the morning paper today, I came across that Russians claim the removal of the statue ''fascism''. I mean, what the hell? How's that fascism?