Russian Artillery Ammunitions
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Ok guys,
For the people still thinking cannons still have some sort of an explosion range, u fail as cannons now only kill what they really hit(I think its good except when they hit a floor or so).
I think canister shot would be overpowered if it is like guns, but if it spreads out enough(so a single guy doesn't get hit by 2 canister bullets) and it only takes like half life I think it would be a great last defence for cannons.
Also, I had this idea of being close to a collapsing wall could give u damage
< will suggest that to vince but I doubt he agrees to any of it.
For the people still thinking cannons still have some sort of an explosion range, u fail as cannons now only kill what they really hit(I think its good except when they hit a floor or so).
I think canister shot would be overpowered if it is like guns, but if it spreads out enough(so a single guy doesn't get hit by 2 canister bullets) and it only takes like half life I think it would be a great last defence for cannons.
Also, I had this idea of being close to a collapsing wall could give u damage
< will suggest that to vince but I doubt he agrees to any of it.
Tikov
Squire
What about maximal range 60 yards, 15-20 bulets- very random (covered area about 20x20 yards) and 75% HP taking? Infantry reg still can charge, but if do it in dumb way (and arty have luck) they lose 0-50% ?Rudovich 说:Ok guys,
For the people still thinking cannons still have some sort of an explosion range, u fail as cannons now only kill what they really hit(I think its good except when they hit a floor or so).
I think canister shot would be overpowered if it is like guns, but if it spreads out enough(so a single guy doesn't get hit by 2 canister bullets) and it only takes like half life I think it would be a great last defence for cannons.
Also, I had this idea of being close to a collapsing wall could give u damage
lord_olafson
We are already working on it.
Wyrdstone
Recruit
I read how often a cannonball would fly past people and kill from the shockwave alone. Accounts of sailors (the books was about the Royal Navy!) dying without a mark on their body.
Sometimes however the cannonball would whizz past and do nothing to a person right next to it.
There is also the story of Lord Uxbridge next to Wellington at Waterloo who had his leg shot off while on his horse "By God, sir, I've lost my leg!"
Wellington replied, "By God, sir, so you have!" They guy died at the age of 87 as well - the cannonball had no affect upon his life span
What I was wondering was wether the cannonballs could have some chance of killing when they pass very close to someone. It would make sense if it didn't always happens.
Also would it be possible to give the cannon a symbol on the kill chart (instead of it showing as headshots)?
Sometimes however the cannonball would whizz past and do nothing to a person right next to it.
There is also the story of Lord Uxbridge next to Wellington at Waterloo who had his leg shot off while on his horse "By God, sir, I've lost my leg!"
Wellington replied, "By God, sir, so you have!" They guy died at the age of 87 as well - the cannonball had no affect upon his life span
What I was wondering was wether the cannonballs could have some chance of killing when they pass very close to someone. It would make sense if it didn't always happens.
Also would it be possible to give the cannon a symbol on the kill chart (instead of it showing as headshots)?
if canister shot is added it will be massively too powerfull. with a normal cannonball you must take time to ain to kill one person, but with canister shot it would destroy the need to aim. it would splat loads of your own team too. its the tkers dream
Good idea. It is good to apply cannon-balls against an infantry in strengthening, but against an infantry hurrying on the stretch of open country and the more so cavalry they are practically unavailing. Shrapnel for these aims would be more effective. Less distance of application and danger for allies will limit the use.
I'd like to see grapeshot as well.
Here a quote from this website about RL grapeshot usage during the Napoleonic Wars.
"Artillery stationed on high ground was, if time allowed, placed behind makeshift redoubts and issued plenty of shotgun-like case rounds to use against enemy units as they toiled upslope. This ammunition is now commonly called grapeshot, even though true grapeshot was a special heavy caliber ball ammunition used only by navies of the period. Case shot was made in two basic types; light case and heavy case. Light case was used at close range, and was composed of 60 to 120 small balls enclosed in a thin cannister which broke apart as the artillery piece fired. Heavy case was employed at longer ranges than light case, and was composed of roughly 30 to 60 larger balls in a similar container. Both types of case could tear gory paths through the ranks of vulnerable units, so it is not surprising that frontal attacks on case-armed artillery was one of the most unpleasant of duties."
Here a quote from this website about RL grapeshot usage during the Napoleonic Wars.
"Artillery stationed on high ground was, if time allowed, placed behind makeshift redoubts and issued plenty of shotgun-like case rounds to use against enemy units as they toiled upslope. This ammunition is now commonly called grapeshot, even though true grapeshot was a special heavy caliber ball ammunition used only by navies of the period. Case shot was made in two basic types; light case and heavy case. Light case was used at close range, and was composed of 60 to 120 small balls enclosed in a thin cannister which broke apart as the artillery piece fired. Heavy case was employed at longer ranges than light case, and was composed of roughly 30 to 60 larger balls in a similar container. Both types of case could tear gory paths through the ranks of vulnerable units, so it is not surprising that frontal attacks on case-armed artillery was one of the most unpleasant of duties."
patton521
Sergeant at Arms
I've read about something called double-shotting which would use a cannonball and several musket balls I don't know if it was ever used in land battles but it would be good to have for naval battles when they get added. But canister and shrapnel shot would be a great addition to the mod .
.loginame
Recruit
People who say cannister will be overpowered don't really know what they are talking about. Let's list off why cannons are not very powerful:
-Cannons require 2-3 people to load and shoot with any decent speed, and even then they are incredibly slow. Especially taking into account the unrealistically slow speed of the artillery horses and how long it takes to actually move the cannon into a decent position in the first place, and then of course there is the fussiness of getting the right action menu to pop up.
-You then have to consider as well that these maps are much smaller than real battlefields and the numbers of enemies are likewise vastly smaller. That means much less time and much less of a target to be shooting at. Cannons look impressive on the chance they hit 3 or more people in a single shot but most of the time they do less damage than you'd get by simply having your 3-4 man arty crew just go muskets and charge.
-The above is true moreso given that real world artillery crews had surveyors and engineers to calculate distance and angle and you're going soley by skill and luck here, the cannons not even having a true sight. In public, even if you are a skilled gunner or have one, you also will be likely fighting for the cannon anyone with pubbers or other regiments, wasting time and good shots.
-Furthermore, you get no field fortifications in a line battle map. You can get perhaps 3 stakes tops but most of the time the skirmshers will be keeping those for fending off cavalry and you can't put them too close to the cannon or you can't shoot it. That is, even if you use them they work poorly for artillery fortifications.
-Don't also forget that gunners cannot defend themselves. They have nothing but truly atrocious toothpick swords with which to fend off attackers, they no longer even have the light sabre. Again, in the real world, many carried carbines or musketoons.
-Finally, the cannonball does not bounce far nor do you properly hit targets while it's in the air after a bounce. Like another poster said, the ball often goes right through someone, especially if it's bouncing.
This is isn't mentioning that most commanders don't really know how to use the cannons at all in my experience or expect unrealistic things from them. Probably, because artillery is very effective in games like NTW but that definitely is not the case here.
Now, any one or two goes can simply zig zag straight towards a cannon and rambo it, after you've spend half the battle moving it and unlimbering it to a good position. Cannister shot would not be close to overpowered given that its effective range is still well under the musket's effective range, to say nothing of riflemen sniping the crew.
-Cannons require 2-3 people to load and shoot with any decent speed, and even then they are incredibly slow. Especially taking into account the unrealistically slow speed of the artillery horses and how long it takes to actually move the cannon into a decent position in the first place, and then of course there is the fussiness of getting the right action menu to pop up.
-You then have to consider as well that these maps are much smaller than real battlefields and the numbers of enemies are likewise vastly smaller. That means much less time and much less of a target to be shooting at. Cannons look impressive on the chance they hit 3 or more people in a single shot but most of the time they do less damage than you'd get by simply having your 3-4 man arty crew just go muskets and charge.
-The above is true moreso given that real world artillery crews had surveyors and engineers to calculate distance and angle and you're going soley by skill and luck here, the cannons not even having a true sight. In public, even if you are a skilled gunner or have one, you also will be likely fighting for the cannon anyone with pubbers or other regiments, wasting time and good shots.
-Furthermore, you get no field fortifications in a line battle map. You can get perhaps 3 stakes tops but most of the time the skirmshers will be keeping those for fending off cavalry and you can't put them too close to the cannon or you can't shoot it. That is, even if you use them they work poorly for artillery fortifications.
-Don't also forget that gunners cannot defend themselves. They have nothing but truly atrocious toothpick swords with which to fend off attackers, they no longer even have the light sabre. Again, in the real world, many carried carbines or musketoons.
-Finally, the cannonball does not bounce far nor do you properly hit targets while it's in the air after a bounce. Like another poster said, the ball often goes right through someone, especially if it's bouncing.
This is isn't mentioning that most commanders don't really know how to use the cannons at all in my experience or expect unrealistic things from them. Probably, because artillery is very effective in games like NTW but that definitely is not the case here.
Now, any one or two goes can simply zig zag straight towards a cannon and rambo it, after you've spend half the battle moving it and unlimbering it to a good position. Cannister shot would not be close to overpowered given that its effective range is still well under the musket's effective range, to say nothing of riflemen sniping the crew.
Hibiki
Sergeant Knight at Arms
I think we're over playing the OP factor of canister shot because it easily has the potential to be horribly over-powered, and we don't want to see that.
Canister shot could be a good addition if properly balanced. You shouldn't be able to wipe out entire companies with a single shot, or any such nonsense, as I can easily envision. It should be just enough to make a few men zig-zag charging cannons a dangerous prospect, and add some element of danger to charging a gun crew. However, a company charging, even in a frontal assault, should be able to decimate a lone cannon crew - though, of course, with a conservative price paid in casualties. It should be a last resort, close-range munition requiring proper timing and fore-sight. The main role of cannons should remain in M&M, as they were in reality, as a means of long-range bombardment that, while not as effective as a close-range musket volley, can still wear down, demoralize, or deter an enemy.
Canister shot could be a good addition if properly balanced. You shouldn't be able to wipe out entire companies with a single shot, or any such nonsense, as I can easily envision. It should be just enough to make a few men zig-zag charging cannons a dangerous prospect, and add some element of danger to charging a gun crew. However, a company charging, even in a frontal assault, should be able to decimate a lone cannon crew - though, of course, with a conservative price paid in casualties. It should be a last resort, close-range munition requiring proper timing and fore-sight. The main role of cannons should remain in M&M, as they were in reality, as a means of long-range bombardment that, while not as effective as a close-range musket volley, can still wear down, demoralize, or deter an enemy.
Kator Viridian
Master Knight
The mods fine tbh, leave it as it is, people picking none existant holes because there is lack thereof, everything is fine, people still play the mod and have stuck with it even with the apparent "Unbalances".
