Running down enemies on world map

[JunKeteer]

Through the deep woods, sure I'll agree. Over rough terrain like mountains or rivers? Again, sure. But over open terrain there should be no reason that a group of 100 soldiers on mounts...even with a baggage train...shouldn't be able to run down a group of 15 soldiers on foot. Especially over an extended chase of several days. No soldier can keep moving at that speed without rest or sleep, no matter how elite they are. You can push horses much further than you can humans. So adding a fatigue modifier makes sense.

You'd still be able to have an escape mechanic. Wait for the large party to be near a forest to make a break for it. Or take that rough trip over the mountain pass. It should be easy enough to 1) adjust the terrain modifier to impact different parties differently and 2) keep track of how long parties have been moving and simulate fatigue on both mounts and soldiers.

I wish they did something of that degree of depth, or something like roads giving preferable speed boost too. I don't like the 'terrain' layout of the world map itself, pathing is all wonky (especially by the NE/Saneopa, sturgia, by Rhotae, or near Danustica, just off the top of my mind). If it was more 'realistic' be cool for foot infantry to opt to take the wooded route to bypass a cavalry party, etc...but then they have to also include that calculation in for every AI; and other loss of other gameplay routes due to said 'realism' unfortunately.

 

[froggyluv]

One of the more interesting Warband mods I've played was an old Asian mod called 12th, which had this Pass system where each walled fief had a small area of control around it which enemy parties couldn't pass through unless they were sieging it, and the whole map was designed to take advantage of that with chokepoints all over. It completely changed how wars played out. There were real battlefronts where all the fighting happened. Castles had real strategic value because if you lost the one that guarding a bridge or a mountain pass it would open up all your interior territories to raiding. It was such a clever system. I don't think they changed the ai at all, but that one change to how fiefs work made the ai seem so much smarter.

Pretty neat just checked out their feature list -impressive !

-12TH- mod for Mount & Blade: Warband

the story of the historical mod dates from 1135,when the Asian-Europe continent was at war The 12th century, one subtle turning point. The continent was in an extraordinary turmoil that no one had ever seen, in which all forces were to experience changes...

www.moddb.com

 

[bunions]

Pretty neat just checked out their feature list -impressive !

-12TH- mod for Mount & Blade: Warband

the story of the historical mod dates from 1135,when the Asian-Europe continent was at war The 12th century, one subtle turning point. The continent was in an extraordinary turmoil that no one had ever seen, in which all forces were to experience changes...

www.moddb.com

Garrison Do Something - Does something similar without the restriction of not letting you traverse the area.

 

[geala]

I don't understand why a party of over 100 should be able to catch a party of 14. That would make the whole M+B map movement system obsolete. It has it's faults, but the situation described is not one of them. Wether they are infantry or not, does not matter, imagine that they ride horses the same way your infantry do. Larger formations are generally slower than smaller ones also in the real world.

 

[Apocal]

Larger formations are generally slower than smaller ones also in the real world.

Yup.

A big part of that is because smaller formations have more freedom in the routes they take whereas larger formations are restricted by what will support them, unless they fancy having a bunch of their troops dying of disease and thirst along the way.

 

[SpicyTurnip]

Hey has anyone seen the modifier in the speed hover tooltip that says "slower party setting"? I have a party of all cavalry and manage all my relevant skills and cargo modifiers so the only thing slowing me down is this setting. I do have some mods installed, but none of them mention party speed and it is not adjustable in their configuration files. Is this a part of vanilla or must it come from one of my mods?

 

[Zerosaiko]

Hey has anyone seen the modifier in the speed hover tooltip that says "slower party setting"? I have a party of all cavalry and manage all my relevant skills and cargo modifiers so the only thing slowing me down is this setting. I do have some mods installed, but none of them mention party speed and it is not adjustable in their configuration files. Is this a part of vanilla or must it come from one of my mods?

I haven't used the mod myself, but I think that's something Banner Kings does to every party?

 

[SpicyTurnip]

I haven't used the mod myself, but I think that's something Banner Kings does to every party?

Oh I see! I just disabled it and started a new campaign to check and the modifier disappeared. Thanks, you saved me from having to turn off and on each mod till I figured it out.

 

[Agroplode]

I just remembered this mod. I have not tried it.

Can't Run Forever

Parties slow down after running away from you (or someone else) for some time.

www.nexusmods.com

Chase Em Down

Allows you to order army parties to chase down enemy parties when leading an army.

www.nexusmods.com

 

[niekdegrijze]

Pretty neat just checked out their feature list -impressive !

-12TH- mod for Mount & Blade: Warband

the story of the historical mod dates from 1135,when the Asian-Europe continent was at war The 12th century, one subtle turning point. The continent was in an extraordinary turmoil that no one had ever seen, in which all forces were to experience changes...

www.moddb.com

Seems very good.
I like their pass system and recruitment system.
I find it very strange to see enemy caravans travelling through a pass where you own the castle(between vlandia and battania)
I would like to see something like it for bannerlord

 

[froggyluv]

I don't understand why a party of over 100 should be able to catch a party of 14. That would make the whole M+B map movement system obsolete. It has it's faults, but the situation described is not one of them. Wether they are infantry or not, does not matter, imagine that they ride horses the same way your infantry do. Larger formations are generally slower than smaller ones also in the real world.

Sorry but just because you don’t want a party of 100 to catch a party of 14 - that doesn’t justify what is probably the most pedestrian strategy map chase sequence in existence- there is literally less logic than pac man chasing ghosts. And btw you ever heard of an advance or scouting party ? Depending on the importance of said smaller party a larger party could send out a smaller one to hold them up or skirmish while larger party arrives as reinforcements.

There’s thousands of ways they could have thought to improve the map chase system but they chose Zero

 

[Ichon]

Sorry but just because you don’t want a party of 100 to catch a party of 14 - that doesn’t justify what is probably the most pedestrian strategy map chase sequence in existence- there is literally less logic than pac man chasing ghosts. And btw you ever heard of an advance or scouting party ? Depending on the importance of said smaller party a larger party could send out a smaller one to hold them up or skirmish while larger party arrives as reinforcements.

There’s thousands of ways they could have thought to improve the map chase system but they chose Zero

Until AI advance parties are constantly catching your small party and allowing it to be wiped by a larger party.

The maneuver on the world map is pretty basic but it also offers clear risk/reward trade-off for at least the first half of most campaigns.

Eventually all the remaining kingdoms have parties size 150+ while minor clans and defeated kingdoms are still running around with 30-50 so it becomes really annoying as there is no possible way to deal with both and players have to choose one or the other. Most people go with larger parties because it brings in more income but then the smaller parties constantly raid and lower prosperity which is mostly annoying from a 'clean' perspective, the amount of money battle loot brings in the late game is always more than towns until players control half the map.

There are also perks that allow faster forest or plains speed but they are almost all either/or so if you are plaing in the west taking the forest perks is usually best while playing in the east the plains perks make more sense but the movement system is very basic.

I would really favor chokepoints where castle garrisons could have a chance to intercept enemy parties effectively closing the choke or having to rely on roguery to sneak past.

 

[froggyluv]

Until AI advance parties are constantly catching your small party and allowing it to be wiped by a larger party.

Obviously that wouldnt or shouldnt be the totality of some new world map mechanics -it should be a possibility based off of other strategic factors etc..Heres how you know something is wrong with the status quo of the World Campaign Map -name me ONE interesting thing as in strategic narrative terms thats happened in any of your campaigns ever on the world map? You cant because that doesnt exist.

In any sort of strategy setting with overhead map, there should be dynamics at play such as ie General _x decided it best wait for the Summer season because the terrain , troop type, weather type, enemy type etc would be at his advantage...

In this game its lord X chases Lord Y 3/4 round the map with zero awareness of anything like territorial boundries or any of the above real life military variables -its merely X at a speed of 4.6 chases Y at a speed of 4.6 ad infinitum

Lame.

The maneuver on the world map is pretty basic but it also offers clear risk/reward trade-off for at least the first half of most campaigns.

Pretty basic? Its nothing but a meaningless footrace.

 

[Retrobarbaari]

I don't see why should a party of couple dozen men move any faster than party of couple hundred men. Sure vast armies travel slower, that's understandable. But party of couple hundred aren't vast armies.

Large parties also have advantages small parties don't. They can send plenty of scouts and get intel. Small parties travel with luck: one misfortune can stop them. Large parties can gather (trade) resources from wide area, small parties must find resources along their own path.

I should think a party with enough horses travel faster than party without horses. Yeah if you are a very good runner, you could beat the horse in long distance. But horses can also carry food, armor and other equipment much easier than men can.

 

[Retrobarbaari]

AI advance parties are constantly catching your small party and allowing it to be wiped by a larger party.

Yeah but why should NPC lords waste their time and money chasing a few peasants with big parties? That's pretty stupid thing to do. What if them NPC lords behaved a bit more like... real world?

 

[froggyluv]

I don't see why should a party of couple dozen men move any faster than party of couple hundred men. Sure vast armies travel slower, that's understandable. But party of couple hundred aren't vast armies.

A few dozen a dozen whatever is small relative to what we call large parties for this game world. The reason advance scouting/raiding parties travel faster than the Large Force Armies is they dont require an accompanying supply train etc...they can move at will , not having to stop to sleep or rest or setup/breakdown camps and tents etc...thats of course not part of this game it is just implied by the larger force moving slower.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Until AI advance parties are constantly catching your small party and allowing it to be wiped by a larger party.

This coupled with the need for parties to camp every night or face a speed/morale penalty, plus an actual Line of Sight system that isn't just a circle, would make for a better experience in my opinion.

The main advantage for smaller parties should be subterfuge, not speed. An army of 1000 and a group of 5 bandits shouldn't spot each other at the same time. But if the bandits get spotted, they should be as good as dead if the army has any cavalry to detach.

 

[Retrobarbaari]

A few dozen a dozen whatever is small relative to what we call large parties for this game world. The reason advance scouting/raiding parties travel faster than the Large Force Armies is they dont require an accompanying supply train etc...they can move at will , not having to stop to sleep or rest or setup/breakdown camps and tents etc...thats of course not part of this game it is just implied by the larger force moving slower.

So in THIS game world we think couple of hundred men need a supply train and is a large army?
Errr...
I sure don't.

 

[froggyluv]

So in THIS game world we think couple of hundred men need a supply train and is a large army?
Errr...
I sure don't.

In real world famous historical battles be it Napolean, Rome, Hannibal, Greece etc large armies were in the thousands if not hundreds of thousands. Obviously the scale of this game can not handle that so everything is downsized so having Large armies be slower than smaller dozen man advance/recon/skirmish type is not that far a stretch. This really isnt that difficult to grasp.

 

[Retrobarbaari]

An army of 1000 and a group of 5 bandits shouldn't spot each other at the same time. But if the bandits get spotted, they should be as good as dead if the army has any cavalry to detach.

Right. And they are seeing each others, are they not?
There's track following too, but when you follow another party, they're in sight. If they aren't, why isn't it also tracking then?