RUN!!!!!!!!!!

[Hyomoto]

I would propose most people want to run simply to get to killing something quicker.  From that frame of reference its entirely stupid.  Should sprinting exist?  Yes.  I even think it should exist without drawback.  M&B is a great game, but from the side of combat it is quite simple in execution.  I speak not that it is without depth, or that it is not highly entertaining.  Rather I simply wish to point out if you wish to improve a simple system, you should incorporate simple features.  Running is simple, and needs no further modification.  If you wish to add stamina you must add stamina to everything.  If you want to take into account encumbrance for running, it must also affect all other actions.

So either you add running as is, or you rewrite the game.  It is, unfortunately, as simple as that.  As a case in point I make this final presentation, should running come into play with something as simple as a meter to affect how long you can run for; people will then want factors that affect that meter, actions affected by that meter.  Hence, it is a highly risky and complex integration.  As one of my gaming mentors once told me, "The more complicated you make something, the more purpose it must have."  Or as we say in the Navy, "Keep it simple stupid."

If I wanted to make M&B complex, I'm certain I'd be able.  I just don't know if that makes it better.

 

[sumguy720]

  If you want to take into account encumbrance for running, it must also affect all other actions.

I agree. Every time I sprint somewhere I just hobble around like a dazed idiot. Can't even untie my shoes without extreme concentration. I imagine that depleting your energy and 'stamina' on the battlefield would be equally draining. Hell, even after two minutes of full range sparring my mind starts to waver into oblivion.
Implement stamina and suddenly you have a new damage system, a new movement system, a new running system, and so on and so forth.

In either case, I like the way warband handles running. Nothing should be changed because there is nothing particularly bad about the current system.

 

[.:QK:.TOSH{2k7}]

If endurance affected attack speed (the more tired you are, the slower your combat will be) then it'd be a really nice thing to see added...if you're a fully armored knight on foot then you'd stand better chance vs a rushing horde since you could always hope that they will tire a bit and become slower...

Constant fighting should IMO also drain endurance then...AND morale should be a factor as well....higher morale = slower stamina drain from your fighters  or something like that...right now I don't really see much of a difference with morale at all when fighting...

yes as this would also solve the 2H spamming problem and bring more skill to the game

 

[Earendil the Great]

there should be a penalty for heavy armour though

 

[demoman_chaos]

Or as the battle goes on, your people tire. Reinforcements will have fresh stamina since they haven't been fighting, giving them a bit of an edge over the guys who have been in the battle for a long while. You can sprint freely, but it quickens your exhaustion, just like continual blocking and slashing. Maybe add a rest action, which regains only some of your stamina after a good few seconds pause (no spamming it to get all of it back, add a limit to how much to can regain which lessens as time goes on). Less stamina would slow you down, slow down your attacks, etc.
It would add balance to multiplayer. Skill players would tire from not dying, so new players would have a chance to kill them (unlike Halo, a skilled player can easily shut out a newer player since they get all their health back long before the other guy can get back to them) at least a  few times.

 

[Genava]

I have a suggestion if it's possible to add a sprint mode. The men carrying a shield can charge with their shield raised to push an adversary. If he is in block movement (shield or weapon), he steps back. Otherwise he is simply reversed. I think it's more realistic, and if a guy with a two-handed weapon want stop a "shield charge" he can kick the man.

 

[L00ter]

That should be part of the athletics skill...

Really good idea, but all units should have this then...not just the player...

I agree & it should be done similar to how some decide to run from battle in warband.
I remember seeing some forest bandits stop what they were doing & decided to *warp speed*
run like hell trying to retreat from battle which I thought was hilarious& glad they added that.

so another faster speed would be great  walk/run/RLHell-with ctrl+w  ..so not an athletic skill

 

[Rizu]

Always running is one reason as it just feels a bit weird and some people just want to walk.Then the animations are kinda stiff when on foot.These two reasons are I believe the reason for alot of praise for the horse combat while melee gets the back seat.The immersive feeling is off IMO.Riding a horse in M&B feels really good and pulls you into the game.Once you dismount though you get bounced out of game slightly.

Do we need run in game IMO no.But by giving the player control of walking or sprinting you remove the artificial feeling(always sprinting)and immersion is boosted.Another thing is inertia.During horse combat inertia feels dam good.Take a horse around a tree in first person and you can feel the weight of the horse pulling you into a wider arc.By adding some inertia to a person on foot you could add a bit of this to melee combat.

Another area that would add to M&B and is in most FPS games out nowadays is lean left/right.So many times I want to shoot an arrow at an enemy around a corner and I get thrown out of the game when I go to peer around the corner and nothing happens.Q and E would be perfect for this.Its all for the good of the game in the long run.

^
I support this, having the option to walk "normally" or jog/run is only for the better, and brings a nicer feeling to the gameplay. I also agree with the ability to lean (mostly for the archer's advantage, but also to peek around corners just for fun). 

Edit: You can already walk by holding the left shift button. (Change the zoom in controls)

Excellent Idea!

But as M&B is Role playing game this skills should be tied to attributes.

Run (STR+AGI / 5) (duration of Burst run) Running in full armor is very tiering job and should add reuse penalty, So if wearing light armor you can use running skill each 10 seconds, in medium 20 and in heavy 30 seconds) Of course Strength should affect this, so character with high STR and AGI can reduce those times as they grow stronger and get more XP.

Example:
- character with 5 in STR and AGI
-- Run in armor Light: 10 sec
-- Run in armor medium: 20
-- Run in armor High: 30

- character with 10 in STR and AGI
-- Run in armor Light: 9 sec
-- Run in armor medium: 18
-- Run in armor High: 27

- character with 15 in STR and AGI
-- Run in armor Light: 8 sec
-- Run in armor medium: 16
-- Run in armor High: 24

- character with 20 in STR and AGI
-- Run in armor Light: 7 sec
-- Run in armor medium: 14
-- Run in armor High: 21

- character with 25 in STR and AGI
-- Run in armor Light: 6 sec
-- Run in armor medium: 12
-- Run in armor High: 18

Jump (STR+AGI / 5) (distance of jump) Again Armor type should define distance penalty as well as reuse

Example:
- character with 5 in STR and AGI
-- Jump in armor Light: 2 m
-- Jump in armor medium: 1,5 m
-- Jump in armor High: 1 m

- character with 10 in STR and AGI
-- Jump in armor Light: 3 m
-- Jump in armor medium: 2 m
-- Jump in armor High: 1,5 m

- character with 15 in STR and AGI
-- Jump in armor Light: 4 m
-- Jump in armor medium: 4 m
-- Jump in armor High: 2 m

- character with 20 in STR and AGI
-- Jump in armor Light: 5 m
-- Jump in armor medium: 4 m
-- Jump in armor High: 3 m

- character with 25 in STR and AGI
-- Jump in armor Light: 6 m
-- Jump in armor medium: 5 m
-- Jump in armor High: 4 m

Kneel (essential for archers)

Roll (STR+AGI / 8 ) (number of rolls before avatar stand up) As you can guess rolling in full plate would be like trying to play turtle.

- character with 8 in STR and AGI
-- Roll in armor Light: 2 rolls
-- Roll in armor medium: 1 roll
-- Roll in armor High: none

- character with 16 in STR and AGI
-- Roll in armor Light: 3 rolls
-- Roll in armor medium: 2 rolls
-- Roll in armor High: 1 rolls

- character with 24 in STR and AGI
-- Roll in armor Light: 4 rolls
-- Roll in armor medium: 3 rolls
-- Roll in armor High: 2 rolls


Side quick step (STR+AGI / 7) (number of quick side movement) Side quick steeping is also affected by armor player is wearing. This skill is be essential in dodging arrows or mounted charge.

- character with 7 in STR and AGI
-- SQS in armor Light: 2 steps
-- SQS in armor medium: 1 steps
-- SQS in armor High: none

- character with 14 in STR and AGI
-- SQS in armor Light: 3 steps
-- SQS in armor medium: 2 steps
-- SQS in armor High: 1 steps

- character with 21 in STR and AGI
-- SQS in armor Light: 4 steps
-- SQS in armor medium: 3 steps
-- SQS in armor High: 2 steps

- character with 28 in STR and AGI
-- SQS in armor Light: 5 steps
-- SQS in armor medium: 4 steps
-- SQS in armor High: 3 steps

As it was in dark times, armors did provide protection to your health but light armors provided mobility. Chose wisely


All those skills should be accessible by combination of movement buttons

Run (double tap Walk forward)
Jump (already exist mappable)
Kneel (need to be added as mappable option)
Roll (kneel + left or right)
Side quick step (double tap left or right)


Height

Also one essential thing should be added, that is Height of player character. Normal range from 165 - 200 cm for males and 150 - 190 cm for females. Height directly affect how big target you are on battlefield. it also affect distance of your sidestep.

^
I support this, especially the ability to kneel. I'm not sure about the ability to roll though. Otherwise an overall GREAT SUGGESTION! And should be implemented without doubt.

 

[Alexander the Grath]

I like the idea of yelling "run" or "charge" to get people a momentary sprint.  I also like the idea of getting a short burst of speed from a horse (which can be done in real life).  But I also would love a RETREAT option, which I admit is what I thought this was.

Great ideas, though -- and thanks for the info on walking. 

 

[Knighttemplar12]

That should be part of the athletics skill...

Really good idea, but all units should have this then...not just the player...

yeah. No matter what I do how light of armor I'm wearing I pretty much just stay at the same speed. Sure I can tell when the speeds increased/decreased but if my character is a true warrior then he should be able to run a little bit in his armor!

 

[demoman_chaos]

Instead of making it like CoD, make it a longer bar that descreases slowly. A trained warrior won't tire out running for a few seconds. You should be able to fight for at least 5-10 minutes before getting exhausted.
But most large battles don't last more than 10-15 minutes, the whole stamina thing would be worthless.

So it would be best to not have one at all since battles are usually short enough that a warrior would not get overyl tired before it is over.

 

[I_am_a_Spoon]

This is some good **** right here. 

I like the idea for the bar that depletes very slowly over time with each exerting action a soldier takes. Hacking and slashing at an enemy for a full minute should really drain your stamina, and items like heavy weapons, heavy armour and shields (especially shields) should carry severe stamina penalties.

I also reckon that the "resting" idea already proposed sounds great, as long as you can only do it when the nearby vicinity is clear of enemies... maybe the character could bend forwards, hold his sides or knees and pant whilst resting? Or sit on his haunches in order to catch his breath? That'd be cool...

EDIT: Oh yeah, soldiers could automatically charge (and yell out warcries) as they close with the enemy, M2:TW style. 

 

[L-J-F]

Definitely, agreed with the above

 

[Jaytaro]

I think Running Is a great idea.
it would be cool to Run (Charge) at an enemy and knock him over as you run in to him (like with horse charge)

 

[Bold]

I do think a stamina bar is great and all actions etc etc are linked, BUT .....  !!!!

I played Darkfall its a MMO that has slidely the same realtime combat system as M&B but, and here it is ........ it has a slow draining "stamina-bar".

Possitive;
When I started playing this game it felt awsome, the feeling of freedom when you started to travel with a friend through the woods. Occasionally sprinting and jumping alternating with a swing from your sword and block.

Negative;
It was a slowly draining stamina bar so the fights resulted in rediculous "sprinting in 8 figures with timed hits" for minutes long!! It did not look realistic at all it felt like a cartoon-film. Maybe if they would impement a (often in forum requested) second sprintbar on top of the slowly drainig stamina bar it would be better. Or maybe if they put in momentum like with M&B mount riding then it could be perfect.

Overall it felt great a stamina bar wich was linked to all of your actions. Exept if it gives advantage to unrealistic fighting styles that would need some attention...

 

[TheCleverPeasant]

  The idea of stanima and running seems very good. I suppot most of what is said here, though I do not have time to point out everything that I want to right now, I will follow this thread with great intrest.

 

[(TWD)Tom]

god idea

 

[blitzking]

Yes I definately think that the normal encumbrances should also apply. If the difference in speed is relative, it will still feel useful even if you aren't actually running that fast.

A man in plain clothes carrying only a dagger might run at 10 mph and sprint at 20

A man in full plate might run at 3 mph and sprint at 6.

(1.6 Km to the mile)

In this way, the plate mail warrior still wouldnt be moving fast, but it would SEEM much faster relative to the normal running speed.

3mph? Do you know how slow that is? That's about walking speed, buddy. Armor doesn't encumbre THAT much.

 

[Grimmend]

I think he was just using that as an example not as the actual speeds

 

[blitzking]

I think he was just using that as an example not as the actual speeds

I hope so!