Rules of LN?

[Deofuta]

NA based line battles have rules governing that.

What are the arguments for allowing it?

We don't allow it... If you fire your musket, you must be in a properly dressed and spaced line. That cuts down on the charge 'n' shoot tactic for the most part.

Yes I know, makes perfect sense!
I'm just wondering why it isn't enforced in the line battles that I participate in (EU)

Different event hosts have diferent ideas when it comes to playing the game I suppose

The Sunday linebattle hosted by Lance is a EU linebattle that enforces similar rules, if you were interested. Try contacting him about it.

 

[Hekko]

I find that no shooting during the charge promotes camping and non-aggressive gameplay where melee takes on an alot smaller role, none of these effects are really desirable. This because of things such as people firing at will meaning that you're kept strafing perpetually, unrealisticly quick reload times, lack of fear and anxiousness on the defending side all meaning that no firing on the charge is just an easy way for the defender to pick up pointblank kills.

 

[Kator Viridian]

I find that no shooting during the charge promotes camping and non-aggressive gameplay where melee takes on an alot smaller role, none of these effects are really desirable. This because of things such as people firing at will meaning that you're kept strafing perpetually, unrealisticly quick reload times, lack of fear and anxiousness on the defending side all meaning that no firing on the charge is just an easy way for the defender to pick up pointblank kills.

Have to agree with Hekko, I'd hate to have to charge in a line letting the defender give a first volley, just makes charging pointless and considering Mount and Blade is a melee based game then thats what I want to see. Melee on EU servers makes up the majority of the kills (coupled with cannon on entire regiments if it happens), adding the rule into the line battles that don't have it feels like stagnation, the less options you have in manouvering and fighting the more boring it gets ... like fighting the AI on TW games, gets to the point you know whats gonna happen, I remember on rome I could just wonder around with like 4 cohorts and wipe out a 2k army of gauls, so dull just gave up.

From what i've played without that rule the line battles are perfectly fine, there are no complaints, people enjoy themselves in and out of the line battle and get along with one another ... which is what I want out of a line battle, the more rules the more there is to start the muck slinging at one another ... not something a community wants.

 

[galdos]

i agree whit hekko and kator I mean that you do your last shot from the formation and then attack enemy line unless you are very close can give you time to reload and shoot again so they have a shot at close range and many people lose in the race while if you keep shooting you can do to them the same effect I think this makes lb are more dynamic because if not everyone would be quiet and would not want to charge into anything because of the danger to their own line

 

[Deofuta]

In the long run it tends to be the addition of artillery that gives the largest impetus to camp. No firing out of formation requires a certain awareness and understanding about how the combat works. It makes the leaders of regiments properly gauge distances, take risks, and accept sacrifices in order to win. The situations you three are describing demonstrate a lack of gauging distances and timing charges. After using the rule set since the release of NW I can happily say that it works rather well.

 

[5arge]

Well said Deo.

 

[Kator Viridian]

In the long run it tends to be the addition of artillery that gives the largest impetus to camp. No firing out of formation requires a certain awareness and understanding about how the combat works. It makes the leaders of regiments properly gauge distances, take risks, and accept sacrifices in order to win. The situations you three are describing demonstrate a lack of gauging distances and timing charges. After using the rule set since the release of NW I can happily say that it works rather well.

Ah but your circumstance in itself is that people are hardly charging which means mainly stationary units which is why cannons get most of their kills. I would not doubt the compentancy of the regiments we fight against in knowning when to charge, 52nd in itself likes to sit and wait for the enemy on our doorstep before leaping over a hill and scaring the crap out of a regiment, works very well if you know how to use the crouch within the rules (No crouching when firing and reloading ... make careful note of that).

The EU and US line battles are very different it seems, the EU full of melee scrim downs with close quarter action across the map, whilst the US seems to be rather shooting orientated which is why the cannons seem to take the field (Now with howitzer explosive shells and shrapnel it must be pretty easy nowadays), where as in the EU line battles its the amount of lines and quality of troop melee that counts, the cannoneers although good don't really have as many opertunities to fire into the sides of lines.

I have played in both EU and US line battles and have genuinly found this difference between the 2. The US guys are happy to have their rule as it already fits into your style of play, the EU on the other hand prefer a more hands on approach getting to the point of the game which is melee orientation ... no I'm not saying the US players are bad in melee but stating the simple preference of the 2 "groups" (I say "Groups" because we're the same community just 2 different ways of doing the same thing).

You say its people bad at gauging distances but its not, we could happily sit around and fire at one another all day, just we find it a little tedious ... instead going for what we prefer, melee ... which is really the main point for buying warband.

 

[Gunnar11]

I find that no shooting during the charge promotes camping and non-aggressive gameplay where melee takes on an alot smaller role, none of these effects are really desirable. This because of things such as people firing at will meaning that you're kept strafing perpetually, unrealisticly quick reload times, lack of fear and anxiousness on the defending side all meaning that no firing on the charge is just an easy way for the defender to pick up pointblank kills.

From my experience, US linebattles still have alot of melee with the no shooting out of formation rule.

 

[Frederickson]

This isn't a reply to the original post but a continuation of the discussion.

I don't like that in line battles you can generally scatter and charge whilst holding a shot for the last moment. I think it should be either one or the other, i.e. you take your last shot in formation and then you scatter and charge or you charge in a line and take your last shot together (I'm assuming people would prefer the first one).

I think this would encourage medium range combat instead of the normal sequence of rapidly going from too far to hit to right on top of each other.

What do you guys think?

Charging in a wide formation (Spread) and holding shot in till you are close is a tactic that works and was used in MM for a long time, then a few people who don't like it made a linebattle with rules against it. I honestly say if you don't like being beat by it devise a tactic to counteract it? like i dunno COUNTERCHARGE instead of sitting in a line waiting for the charging regiment to annihilate you. Its a valid tactic it works, and you can easily counteract it by either counter charging (will at least equal the casualties on both sides from close range shot.) or spreading out to receive the charge.

 

[Deofuta]

This isn't a reply to the original post but a continuation of the discussion.

I don't like that in line battles you can generally scatter and charge whilst holding a shot for the last moment. I think it should be either one or the other, i.e. you take your last shot in formation and then you scatter and charge or you charge in a line and take your last shot together (I'm assuming people would prefer the first one).

I think this would encourage medium range combat instead of the normal sequence of rapidly going from too far to hit to right on top of each other.

What do you guys think?

Charging in a wide formation (Spread) and holding shot in till you are close is a tactic that works and was used in MM for a long time, then a few people who don't like it made a linebattle with rules against it. I honestly say if you don't like being beat by it devise a tactic to counteract it? like i dunno COUNTERCHARGE instead of sitting in a line waiting for the charging regiment to annihilate you. Its a valid tactic it works, and you can easily counteract it by either counter charging (will at least equal the casualties on both sides from close range shot.) or spreading out to receive the charge.

A 'valid' tactic that utterly disregards the rules of war that Napoleonic Combat was based on.

I would just drop the conversation honestly. There is a reason two different types of line battles are now played and are both quite popular, people have different opinions on the matter. Both work, both are enjoyable, and both have an audience. It goes to show that if you don't like how something works, take the initiative and devise something that you find improves on it.

 

[Kator Viridian]

This isn't a reply to the original post but a continuation of the discussion.

I don't like that in line battles you can generally scatter and charge whilst holding a shot for the last moment. I think it should be either one or the other, i.e. you take your last shot in formation and then you scatter and charge or you charge in a line and take your last shot together (I'm assuming people would prefer the first one).

I think this would encourage medium range combat instead of the normal sequence of rapidly going from too far to hit to right on top of each other.

What do you guys think?

Charging in a wide formation (Spread) and holding shot in till you are close is a tactic that works and was used in MM for a long time, then a few people who don't like it made a linebattle with rules against it. I honestly say if you don't like being beat by it devise a tactic to counteract it? like i dunno COUNTERCHARGE instead of sitting in a line waiting for the charging regiment to annihilate you. Its a valid tactic it works, and you can easily counteract it by either counter charging (will at least equal the casualties on both sides from close range shot.) or spreading out to receive the charge.

A 'valid' tactic that utterly disregards the rules of war that Napoleonic Combat was based on.

I would just drop the conversation honestly. There is a reason two different types of line battles are now played and are both quite popular, people have different opinions on the matter. Both work, both are enjoyable, and both have an audience. It goes to show that if you don't like how something works, take the initiative and devise something that you find improves on it.

I would of made that word "Changes" instead of "Improves", because improves is your personal opinion not fact, if it improved gameplay or made it better then why are we still playing without the rule in? It didn't improve it just changed into 2 groupings of rules.

Much like there are NA and EU battles there are also "Charging in line" rule group and "Charging how you like" rule group.

Different but not better, the Saturday line battle for example pulls in over 700 people + every week without the rule and will probably do the same this weekend ... So the rule hasn't improved ... its just been added and changed the line battle.

 

[5arge]

It goes to show that if you don't like how something works, take the initiative and devise something that you find improves on it.

I would of made that word "Changes" instead of "Improves", because improves is your personal opinion not fact, if it improved gameplay or made it better then why are we still playing without the rule in? It didn't improve it just changed into 2 groupings of rules.

Much like there are NA and EU battles there are also "Charging in line" rule group and "Charging how you like" rule group.

Different but not better, the Saturday line battle for example pulls in over 700 people + every week without the rule and will probably do the same this weekend ... So the rule hasn't improved ... its just been added and changed the line battle.

Since we are nit-picking here, I feel I should point out that he said "devise something that you find improves on it". So Deo was advising everyone to follow their own taste as opposed to steering people one way or another.

Nice try contrarian.

 

[Kator Viridian]

It goes to show that if you don't like how something works, take the initiative and devise something that you find improves on it.

I would of made that word "Changes" instead of "Improves", because improves is your personal opinion not fact, if it improved gameplay or made it better then why are we still playing without the rule in? It didn't improve it just changed into 2 groupings of rules.

Much like there are NA and EU battles there are also "Charging in line" rule group and "Charging how you like" rule group.

Different but not better, the Saturday line battle for example pulls in over 700 people + every week without the rule and will probably do the same this weekend ... So the rule hasn't improved ... its just been added and changed the line battle.

Since we are nit-picking here, I feel I should point out that he said "devise something that you find improves on it". So Deo was advising everyone to follow their own taste as opposed to steering people one way or another.

Nice try contrarian.

Then you'd end up with 700 line battles and no players ... well 1 per line battle.

Sometimes you have to follow the flock to have some fun, nothing wrong with that.

Sorry if I sounded like a douche, I'm not trying to single people out or nit pick, I just picked up on that word thought it meant something it didn't, so i'm sorry but thats what i picked up on.

 

[Deofuta]

5arge was correct, the improves was indeed a personal opinion for the statement. I did not say either was objectively better, its a matter of personal opinion. Also, I think the idea of it spreading to an infinite amount of line battles is a stretch. The idea of course needs a number of like minded people, which both have. It also needs support in terms of servers and administration, which both have. It needs to lead to a type of game play most of said group finds enjoyable, which both do. Ergo, both are viable event types that cater to the community.

 

[bdd458]

In Jorge and Thundersnow's battles, you CAN fire and charge, but you can't stop to reload again (Take your one shot than charge, you also can't stand there while everyone else is charging. Unless you beat the opposing regiment(s) of course.

 

[chargerz43]

Ya, I have yet to commonly experience our see two regiments line up at close range and trade volleys. All I usually see is sniping-distance engagements or straight up charges with minimal/no shooting. I think the battle experiences would be much more intense and more of a test of combat skill if companies got up close and shot multiple times, not one volley and charge.