Rome at War: Suggestions/bugs

[Seek n Destroy]

I think I get what you are saying though our system in MP is very similar with Vikingr where you need to press X to cycle between overhead and the regular thrust for the spears, the only difference is that the overhead attack counts as overhead and not as a thrust.
I'll give this another shot though I'm worried we don't have any free overhead animation remaining, if it goes horribly wrong I'll blame you for my slow descent into madness 

 

[Scuba Steve]

In that case, I'll blame my friend who isn't a member on this forum who gave me these ideas. If you descend into madness, I will apologize on his behalf, though I hope you don't descend into madness, and that it will actually work well and look good.

 

[KickingJoub]

In that case, I'll blame my friend who isn't a member on this forum who gave me these ideas. If you descend into madness, I will apologize on his behalf, though I hope you don't descend into madness, and that it will actually work well and look good.

I can confirm that Seek has descended into madness many moons ago. Pretty much around the first time he fought with the dreaded under-over-arm animations

 

[MarcusU]

I don't know if this is actually possible in the game (but it certainly has been done in Viking Conquest mod), but it would be amazing to see and it would also give the world map more life if there were shrines and oracles that you could visit. Once you enter them you can go to the head priest/priestess and make a sacrifice to the Gods at varying costs. For example you can sacrifice a chicken which costs 100 gold, a goat 300 gold, a cow 750 gold, a horse 2000 gold etc.
In turn this increases the morale of your party because supposedly the Gods would send a good sign. It could also offer different rewards and buffs but I'm not sure how that would work... Perhaps it also increases other people's opinion of you if they are the same religion/faction's religion.

 

[Childe_Rolande]

Spoiler

That's what we have right now, bi-directional Vikingr style overhead attack. What's been suggested is a reverse thumb grip for the spear but I haven't found a good way to do that without visual glitches.

What I mean is more how Vikingr uses the X key to change the stance, rather than the style of attack animation. That way the spear head could be pointed to the ground, and then the reverse thumb grip could be done without the visual glitch of the spear spinning around like in Lynores' overarm animation in the Peloponnesian War mod, while still keeping the two animations that are currently in use as well.

Any item/example in Vikingr where the stance for the spears are changed? Can't seem to recall any but I haven't played Vikingr extensively.

Any of the spears in Vikingr, when you press X, you switch to an overhead attack animation like the one used in RaW by just using the up mouse direction. Vikingr only uses one mouse direction for polearm attacks, unlike RaW. I took some screenshots.

Item selection screen

Spoiler

Attack animations

Spoiler

Regular attack

After pressing X

For a reverse thumb overhand animation to look good, could press X to switch the weapon mode, which would have the spear head pointing down, then a reverse thumb overhand animation would presumably avoid the spear spinning around ugly like, and resemble how the throwing javelins animation looks.

Could probably be done using Somebody's OSP code "Alternate Weapon Modes" https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,292934.msg6963951.html#msg6963951

That's not a bad idea. If we can get proper overarm into this mod it would be awesome.

How's everyone doin'? Does RaW still live?

 

[Antonis]

Well, the changing attack style with a button isn't a difficult thing to do in Warband, even with text files. You just use the flag 'use next item as melee'. And of course, you have to have assigned a proper animation. Still, that is theory.

As for the sacrificial thing, also in theory, this is doable, too. There's Idibil's Priest code available and it is easy to understand(even I did and if I did, imagine what SnD would do with it ). Basically, the code assigns various priests in city-centres(or any party/settlement you want) with the option to mock the priest or be a religious guy and donate money to the church. Just a matter of dialogue edit to alter the choices, from 'giving money to the church' to offer choices to buy sacrificial animals.

 

[Seek n Destroy]

I don't know if this is actually possible in the game (but it certainly has been done in Viking Conquest mod), but it would be amazing to see and it would also give the world map more life if there were shrines and oracles that you could visit. Once you enter them you can go to the head priest/priestess and make a sacrifice to the Gods at varying costs. For example you can sacrifice a chicken which costs 100 gold, a goat 300 gold, a cow 750 gold, a horse 2000 gold etc.
In turn this increases the morale of your party because supposedly the Gods would send a good sign. It could also offer different rewards and buffs but I'm not sure how that would work... Perhaps it also increases other people's opinion of you if they are the same religion/faction's religion.

Something like that was discussed and Rgcotl had started making some temples, there's a temple icon for the map and he was making an Etruscan temple prop which wasn't completed. I don't have the pictures of it either. 
Then my HDD had died again, then real life work started pilling up, little time and only tedious tasks left which didn't add much to my fleeting motivation so I haven't done much since February and I think Rgcotl hasn't finished a model since almost two years so I don't know if he wants to work on the mod anymore. I plan to resume my work on the mod during the summer, even if it's one last version. On the meantime I'll work on 1429 La Guerre de Cent Ans - La Relance and perhaps port some neat little features from it into RaW 

Spoiler

That's what we have right now, bi-directional Vikingr style overhead attack. What's been suggested is a reverse thumb grip for the spear but I haven't found a good way to do that without visual glitches.

What I mean is more how Vikingr uses the X key to change the stance, rather than the style of attack animation. That way the spear head could be pointed to the ground, and then the reverse thumb grip could be done without the visual glitch of the spear spinning around like in Lynores' overarm animation in the Peloponnesian War mod, while still keeping the two animations that are currently in use as well.

Any item/example in Vikingr where the stance for the spears are changed? Can't seem to recall any but I haven't played Vikingr extensively.

Any of the spears in Vikingr, when you press X, you switch to an overhead attack animation like the one used in RaW by just using the up mouse direction. Vikingr only uses one mouse direction for polearm attacks, unlike RaW. I took some screenshots.

Item selection screen

Spoiler

Attack animations

Spoiler

Regular attack

After pressing X

For a reverse thumb overhand animation to look good, could press X to switch the weapon mode, which would have the spear head pointing down, then a reverse thumb overhand animation would presumably avoid the spear spinning around ugly like, and resemble how the throwing javelins animation looks.

Could probably be done using Somebody's OSP code "Alternate Weapon Modes" https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,292934.msg6963951.html#msg6963951

That's not a bad idea. If we can get proper overarm into this mod it would be awesome.

How's everyone doin'? Does RaW still live?

That's basically the system we have in MP whilst in SP you don't have to press a button. There seems to be no good way to implement a reverse thumb animation that works well in parallel to the regular grip. I've tried on several occasions but never achieved satisfying results.

As for the sacrificial thing, also in theory, this is doable, too. There's Idibil's Priest code available and it is easy to understand(even I did and if I did, imagine what SnD would do with it ). Basically, the code assigns various priests in city-centres(or any party/settlement you want) with the option to mock the priest or be a religious guy and donate money to the church. Just a matter of dialogue edit to alter the choices, from 'giving money to the church' to offer choices to buy sacrificial animals.

It's perfectly doable, the only thing here is making a meaningful implementation. As in, if it has no impact on anything why would you bother implementing it? I haven't put much thought into it so far, my initial idea was to add some temples in historically important locations, have some explanatory dialog/menu on the temple and gods of antiquity, etc... have the player pick a god which would add certain bonuses depending on the deity and a "donation" system. People would donate goods, battle trophies, money, labor, etc... and certain temples had an economy of their own. I had picked a random book on ancient Greece in a library that stated some numbers kept in stone tablets of a temple (can't remember which one) and "it" owned a significant portion of the city terrain, houses, labor, etc... practically running an economy parallel to the political regime of the city itself which I found quite interesting. I'd imagine it worked differently in other parts of the world of course and whilst it's an interesting read I'm not sure what to do with this information.

 

[Antonis]

Thing is, in Warband, it works too 'universal'. Meaning that if you want to have different 'religions', you should have different dialogue snippets with different constants, NPCs etc(or just too many menus and optnios, without scenes and 3d stuff, just text). WAY too messy and as you said, a bit without a specific goal. As for what the temple ruled, yes, really interesting, but I can't really see how it would port to Warband. 

 

[Childe_Rolande]

That's basically the system we have in MP whilst in SP you don't have to press a button. There seems to be no good way to implement a reverse thumb animation that works well in parallel to the regular grip. I've tried on several occasions but never achieved satisfying results.

Is it because when the animation is over, the person needs to return to the normal 'standing' stance?  Would it be possible to have, when the standing/idle animation change dependent on the stance selected via 'x'?  If it could be changed to essentially the normal idle but with the spear held up resting on the shoulder , slightly angled downward, that could transition smoothly into an overarm thrust, where holding it would rear it back, pivot the chest to the right and slightly hold the shield forward, allowing you to aim the attack, then releasing it would pivot the hips and chest forward and thrust straight, before returning to the idle.

Similar to resting stance: http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/20/19880/thumb_620x2000/08.1.jpg , https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/europabarbarorum/images/b/b0/EB2_Hellenic_Medium_Infantry.png/revision/latest?cb=20160105134517, https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/europabarbarorum/images/d/d1/EB2_Cretan_Infantry.png/revision/latest?cb=20160105134518

Reared back/attack prepared stance: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/europabarbarorum/images/8/8a/EB2_Greek_Levy_Hoplites.png/revision/latest?cb=20160105134517

Straight overarm thrust (Made properly, doesn't arc and can be aimed): https://i.pinimg.com/736x/51/e2/6f/51e26f8b50d437e73f53fdf5f892390b--iron-age-th-century.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ej7PamZwlCE/maxresdefault.jpg

Also, yay Jeff Goldblum, and yay I presume RaW is not dead! 

 

[Seek n Destroy]

Is it because when the animation is over, the person needs to return to the normal 'standing' stance?

Yes.
There's only 5 stances (unarmed, onehanded, twohanded, twohanded polearm, crossbow) and you don't exactly get control of which stance gets used as they are associated to a weapon type and spears fall into the onehanded stance when used in combination with a shield. I think WSE has a way to overwrite a stance when using a certain item but I'm not considering having it as a requirement to play the mod. But even then there's some transition issues between other animations so that's quite nightmare-ish to implement 
If you try Lynore's The Peloponnesian War mod you'll notice some odd things happening in some animations transitions like from the reverse thumb overhead attack to blocking with a shield. I personally don't see a way out of this that works properly so I'm giving up on the idea, for me that's pretty much as good as it'll get.

 

[Childe_Rolande]

Is it because when the animation is over, the person needs to return to the normal 'standing' stance?

Yes.
There's only 5 stances (unarmed, onehanded, twohanded, twohanded polearm, crossbow) and you don't exactly get control of which stance gets used as they are associated to a weapon type and spears fall into the onehanded stance when used in combination with a shield. I think WSE has a way to overwrite a stance when using a certain item but I'm not considering having it as a requirement to play the mod. But even then there's some transition issues between other animations so that's quite nightmare-ish to implement 
If you try Lynore's The Peloponnesian War mod you'll notice some odd things happening in some animations transitions like from the reverse thumb overhead attack to blocking with a shield. I personally don't see a way out of this that works properly so I'm giving up on the idea, for me that's pretty much as good as it'll get.

Ahh, drat. I understand that. I can totally understand dropping the issue right now, as there are other things that I'm sure need work and take precedent.  Here's hoping Bannerlord will allow us to actually change/customize the stances per type without sharing animations between spears and swords and the like.

I'm thinking, theoretically there there might be a way to get this to work, essentially changing the 'one-handed' stance, that would neither look too ugly or be too weird-looking. And it'd make sense, really. Having the stance more or less just as it is now, but with the right hand up and the weapon resting on the shoulder like so. ( https://i.pinimg.com/564x/a0/fc/96/a0fc967de81372ca6592f4e0348615c7.jpg ) It's functional, relatively common as a means of avoiding fatigue on the weapon arm, and would only look a bit strange when using extremely small weapons like knives/daggers, and would co-incidentally allow the overarm stance with the speahead pointing downward but resting the shaft on the shoulders to work.

 

[vasul]

many things are interesting
https://arrecaballo.es/edad-antigua/

 

[Seek n Destroy]

Spoiler

Is it because when the animation is over, the person needs to return to the normal 'standing' stance?

Yes.
There's only 5 stances (unarmed, onehanded, twohanded, twohanded polearm, crossbow) and you don't exactly get control of which stance gets used as they are associated to a weapon type and spears fall into the onehanded stance when used in combination with a shield. I think WSE has a way to overwrite a stance when using a certain item but I'm not considering having it as a requirement to play the mod. But even then there's some transition issues between other animations so that's quite nightmare-ish to implement 
If you try Lynore's The Peloponnesian War mod you'll notice some odd things happening in some animations transitions like from the reverse thumb overhead attack to blocking with a shield. I personally don't see a way out of this that works properly so I'm giving up on the idea, for me that's pretty much as good as it'll get.

Ahh, drat. I understand that. I can totally understand dropping the issue right now, as there are other things that I'm sure need work and take precedent.  Here's hoping Bannerlord will allow us to actually change/customize the stances per type without sharing animations between spears and swords and the like.

I'm thinking, theoretically there there might be a way to get this to work, essentially changing the 'one-handed' stance, that would neither look too ugly or be too weird-looking. And it'd make sense, really. Having the stance more or less just as it is now, but with the right hand up and the weapon resting on the shoulder like so. ( https://i.pinimg.com/564x/a0/fc/96/a0fc967de81372ca6592f4e0348615c7.jpg ) It's functional, relatively common as a means of avoiding fatigue on the weapon arm, and would only look a bit strange when using extremely small weapons like knives/daggers, and would co-incidentally allow the overarm stance with the speahead pointing downward but resting the shaft on the shoulders to work.

The weapon would still spin to get in the correct position, and there are other issues besides the standing stance, there's the blocking animation too and that can't be solved that way.
The only way to have it working is to have the spear as a separate item and already flipped 180º but then there's no way to switch modes, just replacing the item really but I that makes the agent re-equip a new one and that's a bit clunky. I also think that I don't have any free overhead animation left for onehanded weapons...

many things are interesting
https://arrecaballo.es/edad-antigua/

Yep, I've seen it already. Pretty cool 

 

[Childe_Rolande]

Hmm, you say it'd still spin to get in the correct position? For the under-handed thrust you mean?  If that's so, I think the only way to allow both in that case would be for overarm to be its' own stance and for underarm to obviously use the same stance but with the spearhead going the other direction, in the same way it works now with javelins, where switching the mode just teleports the warhead to the other side. I hope my ghetto diagram sort of explains the motions I'd anticipate. 

Spoiler

When you say blocking, do you mean with shield+Spear equipped, or the spear alone with the two-handed block and such?  In any case, I hope this isn't annoying. Not trying to like, tell you what to do or say 'pshh it's easy bruh', as though I know the first thing about either animating or what Warband actually gives us to work with. Just spitballing~. I love this team's work, and still find this my favorite modification.

 

[MarcusU]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but breaking lords out of prisons is broken. You can't leave the prison scene.

 

[Seek n Destroy]

I'll double check the scenes before a stable release but in general, prison break is one of the most bugged quests of Warband.

 

[MarcusU]

In sieges, I can't "wait until tomorrow". It just goes to the world map for a second then returns to the siege menu. Kind of annoying when I wouldn't want to attack instantly.

 

[vasul]

I'll double check the scenes before a stable release but in general, prison break is one of the most bugged quests of Warband.

When it will be?

 

[Childe_Rolande]

Can't believe I've never noticed this, but, why do the greaves have straps on? I don't know about other theaters in this period, but to my understanding, Greaves were generally held on by the natural spring of the bronze metal.

Is there historical evidence for buckling on greaves in antiquity?

https://books.google.com/books?id=OTW4E0Ti0_MC&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=greaves+held+on+due+springiness+of+the+metal&source=bl&ots=uLDWywl4zO&sig=u6sjFvLDgXo0XCSQwCZr5-Wc6EI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi49_bSr4fcAhUBTt8KHXirDDsQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=springiness&f=false

https://news-cdn.softpedia.com/images/news2/10-Things-You-Did-not-Know-About-Ancient-Greeks-2.jpg

 

[matmohair1]

Samnite greaves

Spoiler

Gladiator greave 

Spoiler